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Member postings for Phil Cooke

Here is a list of all the postings Phil Cooke has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Hurricane Building Tips and Plan/Woodpack queries
18/03/2018 21:05:16
Posted by Graham Green on 18/03/2018 10:06:39:

May I also say thank you Phil for taking the time to draw, develop, test fly the prototype and make it possible for other modellers to join in the mass build of a Hurricane for PSS, especially in this 100 year anniversary of the RAF.

Thanks for the support Gents.

Graham, I should point out that although I've been involved in the realisation of this production woodpack with Traplet and Sarik, the original design and prototype testing work was all completed by PSSA member Matt Jones - its his name on the plan not mine!

I'm glad you recognise and appreciate the link to RAF100 - it will be great to see a large group of Hurricanes at our September meet upon the Orme - our own little PSSA tribute to 100 years and in September - BoB weekend too!

Thread: RN Hawker Sea Hurricane IIc
18/03/2018 08:21:11

Before the fuselage can be joined around the central box section, I needed to assemble the battery tube and nose former F1 - F3 sub-assembly.

An overlay of formers F1 and F2 onto the plan suggested that F2 would also require the same doubler modification, however F1 did not. The simple former mod on F2 is shown - again 2.5mm error correction on height.

former mod 2.5mm.jpg

Accurate assembly is eased if you mark up the battery box with the required position of F2 - and don't forget to shorten your battery box by 3mm so it all remains flush at the front for when you fit F1.

nose assy 1.jpg

nose assy 3.jpg

18/03/2018 08:08:16

Been scratching my head over the former positioning issue identified (and detailed in the woodpack queries thread) in particular those central 'box' formers which are constrained both top and bottom by doublers already glued in position.

With the fuselage side pinned down accurately on sheet 1 over the wing seat, vertically aligning F3 and F7 at the base left me with a clash on the main 1/2" x 1/8" fuselage doubler. F3 shown below.

f3 dry fit.jpg

F7 was the same...

f7 dry fit.jpg

I've modified my formers simply by removing a little more material so they will slip over the doubler when seated and the fuselage sides pulled over...

former correction - 2.5mm.jpg

I needed to remove 2.5mm of material (hatched area) which then allowed the formers to seat correctly in the required position, as shown with F7 below.

f7 seated.jpg

Thread: Hurricane IIc - Night Reaper
17/03/2018 18:59:14

Nice one Stephen - glad that's gone together so easily. Do please double check the height of the formers you've yet to let in from the top - as if your fuselage doubler is set as per sheet 2 - as I'm sure it will be - you will find you need to add 2.5mm of material to the doubler recess on these top mounted formers to maintain them at the required height.

It applies to F4, F5 and F6. This would be consistent with the issue identified last night as written up in the woodpack thread.

Thread: Hurricane Building Tips and Plan/Woodpack queries
17/03/2018 10:13:18
Posted by John Donohoe on 17/03/2018 09:56:50:

Hi, I think this kit is really rubbish. There are so many mistakes on it that the money you paid for is ridiculous. Surely when one make a kit they should assemble it first to make sure everything is spot on.

John that's a little too negative for my liking - there will always be development issues with any new kit. I can assure you a lot of hard work has gone into the development of this new production plan/woodpack and a beta test kit WAS assembled to identify any issues. A number of small changes were made following that under fairly difficult circumstances as the product had been worked by both Traplet and Sarik.

I'm happy to take full responsibility for the decision to proceed from 1st March as that was the timeline I wanted to achieve for the PSSA event later this year - giving us 6 months to build and finish as a community.

As modellers, all these issues are easily fixed through calm identification, discussion and simple remedy... that's exactly the purpose of this thread. Its certainly not intended to be used as you did.

17/03/2018 09:58:49

Hi Graham,

Yes I'd noticed the wing plan view of the radiator differed from the radiator assembly drawings on width too - as you've stated the parts supplied match perfectly the detailed sub assembly drawings at the top of sheet 2 - its just not shown the same on the wing plan... I'll raise that with Sarik too.

Not sure about the cockpit view... I see what you mean about it sitting lower at the rear than at the front as drawn - I'm sure in reality it will trim up correctly and sit flat as required - certainly the prototype looked spot on IMO.

prototype 4.jpg

17/03/2018 08:59:57

I've found last night when positioning the central 'box section' of formers prior to fuselage assembly that formers F3 and F7 both required a little opening out at the 1/2" x 1/8" doubler position.

Having assembled the fuselage sides exactly as per the 2D layout on sheet 2 - I positioned the fuselage side accurately over the sheet 1 side profile using the wing saddle and base of F3 and F7 as reference. Everything lines up perfectly at the extreme front and rear (position of doubler and tail seat etc) so all looked good.

F3's height was governed by the base (it sticks below the fuselage side as intended) - aligned also on the wing dowel hole and it sat nicely on top of the 1/32" doubler (middle green circle) - positioned such I got a 2mm 'clash' with the 1/2" x 1/8 doubler as shown by the red circle.

f3 bind.jpg

This will need relieving to enable assembly, I will remove a little material from the lite-ply former - this will leave me with a small gap above the doubler but this won't cause any problems.

F7 is similar - seen below viewed from the rear.

f7 bind.jpg

Vertical position is governed by the engaged feature in the green circle which butts up against the fuselage side - the former bridges the 1/32" doubler ok but again in this position you are left with a 2mm clash in the red circle. Same remedy required. No gap here above as the former terminates on the doubler.

Considering the rest of the assembly, I fear we might yet see the same issue on formers F2 and F1 as their vertical position is governed by the battery box sub assembly stage. Everyone's case will be bespoke, dependant on how we've exactly trimmed the fuselage sides and exactly positioned the doublers... so it's a case of dry fit, measure twice, amend the parts to suit. Ill talk to Sarik for a double check in CAD and former amendment for future kits.

Edited By Phil Cooke on 17/03/2018 09:15:19

Thread: RN Hawker Sea Hurricane IIc
16/03/2018 08:47:28

To complete the fuselage sides prior to any assembly you have to remove the area of 1/2" x 1/8" fuselage doubler (shown hatched) such that it sits flush with the 1/8" fuselage side tail seat profile.tailseat trim.jpg

tailseat trim 2.jpg

There are a couple of 'composite' formers which need to be assembled before the box fuselage can be joined too - F3 needs F3A gluing to its front face - for stiffness around the L/E wing dowel, the rear wing bolt plate needs to be glued together (the laser can't cut 1/4" ply so 2 sheets of 1/8" ply are supplied) and the 1/8" balsa battery box was assembled too.

composite formers.jpg

There was a very familiar feeling generated when assembling the battery box... It is of course a feature we have employed now on ALL 3 PSSA Mass Build designs - Jet Provost, Skyhawk - and now the Hurricane!

Thread: An Introduction to the PSSA 2018 Mass Build Project
15/03/2018 17:20:12

Not BOTH!??? Noooo!!!!

15/03/2018 16:27:16

Found this photo of the wing light which shows it clearly...

The lamp looks to be vertically orientated when the tail is sat down, so clearly it would point down when the aircraft is in level flight. Also looks to be sat quite well below the wing aerofoil C/L looking at the position of the gun ports and the line where the upper surface camo meets the underside duck egg blue.

hurricane lights.jpg

15/03/2018 12:58:19

As promised, here are a couple of shots of a BBMF Hurricane displaying with the L/E lights on - although my memory failed me a little! - there is only ONE light in operation for some reason - not both as I had remembered!

Anyway it gives us a feel for the colour and luminosity we should be trying to recreate.

Photos from Summer 2014 - Waingroves Village Fete, Derbyshire.

hurricane lights 1 (1).jpg

Being tail chased by a Spit PR.19

hurricane lights 1 (2).jpg

Am I right in thinking the bulbs are angled slightly downward, I guess that would make sense as an aid when looking for the strip during a night time landing? Also, as well as the angle, is the bulb actually set slightly lower than the wing C/L too??

Maybe Danny Fenton can add some clarity if he's reading??

14/03/2018 18:03:04

we SOOOOO need to make a PSSA version of that Hurricane trailer - they even have a group photo clip!! It's just made for a PSSA edit.

Seems its not all flying action though - we'll have to have a spot landing comp to see who gets the girl! devil

14/03/2018 12:05:48


Would look great for sure - and easy enough to install with the built up wing!

It got me thinking how infrequently you see them used during the displays... I went back in time looking through old photos and I found that a few years ago we had a local village fete where the BBMF sent a pair of fighters for a 'flypast' - in BBMF terms that's a pass upon arrival plus 2 returning passes before they head on to the next waypoint. My photos that day show the wing L/E lights on throughout that display - makes it look like a Tucano!! I'll upload one or two later when I'm at home!

Thread: RN Hawker Sea Hurricane IIc
13/03/2018 12:56:52

The 1/2" x 1/8" balsa doublers were then added, from front to rear, as were the 1/32" ply wing saddle doublers.fus side 6.jpg

The 1/2" x 1/8" doubler will run short at the back end if it is flush mounted at the front - this is fine as you have to feather the doubler down to zero thickness at the back end to enable the tail to be pulled in later.

fus side 7.jpg

13/03/2018 12:51:23

Marked up with the position of all the fuselage formers and doublers... accurate assembly will later depend on these lines so it's worth taking your time and getting this done precisely. Left and Right handed pair required!

fus side 5.jpg

13/03/2018 12:46:51

After a lull in progress whilst the PSSA enjoyed their Avro Heritage Museum visit, I've finally got some building underway!

I decided to start with the basic fuselage assembly. Initial job was to layup a left and right handed pair of fuselage sides with former positions and doublers located using the Fuselage Layout on Sheet 2 of the plan as reference.

The fuselage sides are just over 36" in length, as such they are formed from 3 pieces, these were glued flat on the board once the additional trimming ops were performed as described in the woodpack queries thread.

fus side 1.jpg

I found that having trimmed the fuselage sides down to the required line, the front fuselage piece was still a bit 'sloppy' in its keyed housing - I elected to fix this by adding an additional 1/16" strip to the rear face of the component - effectively pushing it tighter into its location. Worked well - this piece overhangs F1 and will be sanded back flush to form the final spinner mount - so this has no effect on the finished model.

fus side 3.jpg

Detail on front section 1/16" extension to locate it tighter into the keyway...maybe I left my fuselage sides 0.2mm oversize after the trimming op?

fus side 2.jpg

At the tail seat - the rear section of the upper fuselage half is very thin and delicate until it's glued to its lower half, I elected to use a scrap block to pin this section into position without the risk of damage to the fuselage itself.

fus side 4.jpg

Thread: Hurricane IIc - Night Reaper
12/03/2018 21:42:02

Nice one Stephen, we will be watching! smile d

Thread: An Introduction to the PSSA 2018 Mass Build Project
12/03/2018 18:19:42

Thanks Andy for explaining - its not always possible for me to use the forum at work so I've only just seen this!

Brian I hope you've caught this in time before gluing your fuselage sides together and have remedied accordingly!?

What this does point out is two things which are worthy of mention I guess...

1 - Folks aren't using the fuselage layout view on Sheet 2 as the master when arranging the fuselage sides;

2 - The other thread 'Hurricane Building Tips and Plan/Woodpack queries' isn't being referred to for updates.

Please remember this is a new production kit and although we've done our very best to ensure all is 100% correct - no kit has actually been built from the final 'production' pack (the beta test was pre-prod and led to some final changes) so we are bound to find the odd niggle or amendment as we go on - In that light - please do check all parts for fit and form prior to adding any glue and do keep referring to the 'Woodpack queries' thread throughout your build.

Happy building all! thumbs up

Thread: Hurricane Building Tips and Plan/Woodpack queries
11/03/2018 20:19:10

It is correct, in regard that was how the prototype was built, we felt the wing was stiff enough without the webs - certainly no issues were found. No harm in adding them if you so wish, but not strictly necessary in this instance.

Thread: PSSA visit to the Avro Heritage Museum
11/03/2018 19:40:01

Nice find Mark - great stuff!! thumbs up

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