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New Laser engines. What do you want?

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Jon Harper - Laser Engines15/11/2017 22:11:04
3178 forum posts
130 photos

Ron, 100cc V twin for £1400? sound ok?

Love the napier, but no chance from us. The same is true of the chaps at OW with their rotaries. Superb stuff, but its not a commercial product.

as much as I don't want to sound like a broken record, we all get excited by the idea of a superb v12 but how many of us would actually pay £6000 for a model engine? not many I wouldn't think. Also (devils advocate time again) most of the engines I have been asked for already exist from other companies....so why have you not bought theirs, and why would you by mine if you haven't bought theirs? Do you expect ours to be cheaper? What reason can you give to me that would make me think 'ok sure' and dedicate time and resources to developing that engine when you didn't buy the same thing from someone else?

To be clear, I'm not trying to criticize you guys and I value your input, but I think the discussion has moved beyond the realms of possibility. 40-60cc singles, 80-120cc v twins, 90cc radials are attainable engines for most modellers and for us.

Don't forget that our most popular engines are the 80 and 155. Small engines used by normal club modellers every day. Not everyone can fly, or has a facilities to fly, or money to buy monster models.

Jon Harper - Laser Engines15/11/2017 22:14:00
3178 forum posts
130 photos
Posted by Joespeeder on 15/11/2017 21:58:10:

Maybe prop spacers to move the prop further from the cylinders for some projects?

Kolm has various lengths to space the cylinders further back in the airframe to help the engines fit.

i think you mean 'Maybe prop spacers to move the prop further forward and really overload the bearings'

I have seen how they do it, its not a good practice having all that mass overhanging the bearing. My 50cc has the cylinder further back due to a long crank and wide spaced bearings. Its a much more stable solution.

cymaz15/11/2017 22:24:29
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7100 forum posts
942 photos

Jon, you have to be hard headed with your business. You keep to the basics, excellent engineering, customer service and value for money then customers will keep coming. This makes more engines and so the cycle carries on. If you saw a need for a radial then I’m sure you would make one. If not...so be it.

Keep up the good work.

Jon Harper - Laser Engines15/11/2017 22:57:22
3178 forum posts
130 photos

Cheers Cymaz

There is a market for a radial and we do need to expand, but its a case of getting the basics right as you say.

As it stands I cant even keep the standard range even remotely in stock and getting the 180 petrol finished is painfully slow due to lack of support. These things must be rectified before the spring, otherwise its all a waste of time.

Once the glow range is in stock, the 180 petrol is done, the 300 and 360v petrols are done, the 90cc radial, 40 and 50cc petrols, 80 and 100cc twins are done and all of them are in stock and selling, I can then afford to be more adventurous.

And believe me, I have ideas

Edited By Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 15/11/2017 22:57:56

Tony Richardson15/11/2017 23:11:53
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549 forum posts
25 photos

Speaking of the180 petrol Jon how is it progressing, waiting with bated breath this side of the pond.

Geoff Sleath15/11/2017 23:17:00
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2062 forum posts
116 photos
Posted by Joespeeder on 15/11/2017 18:49:56:

Hey Geoff,

If it’s the plane I’ve seen online then it’s an OS 4 cylinder 4 stoke inline. Very cool engine, however, Os says not to run it inverted. That really limits the airframes you can use it in.

Joe

No, Joe, it wasn't the OS 4 cylinder engine that goes in the ARTF Cirrus Moth. This one was much bigger and a perfect replica of a Gypsy Major - even to the embossed DH on the alloy castings. An absolute gem of model engineering but, as John Harper says, built by a very skillful German model engineer more for love than money and certainly not a practical commercial proposition.

Laser make beautiful engines but, in the end, they have to make a profit, even if it's only to fund John's aeromodelling activities . It just doesn't make sense to manufacture engines when barely a handful would sell. My wife worked for a friend of ours who was manufacturing quite a sophisticated motor cycle (Silk 700s) with an engine loosely based on a Scott deflector piston twin cylinder 2 stroke. He was tremendously hardworking and enthusiastic but ultimately he was onto a loser but he certainly had fun for a while. I think every one sold at a loss.

Geoff

Geoff

bert baker15/11/2017 23:23:35
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895 forum posts
192 photos

It all depends on where in the marketplace you want to be,

Nigel Dell16/11/2017 03:43:48
288 forum posts
15 photos
Posted by Geoff Sleath on 15/11/2017 23:17:00:
Posted by Joespeeder on 15/11/2017 18:49:56:

Hey Geoff,

If it’s the plane I’ve seen online then it’s an OS 4 cylinder 4 stoke inline. Very cool engine, however, Os says not to run it inverted. That really limits the airframes you can use it in.

Joe

No, Joe, it wasn't the OS 4 cylinder engine that goes in the ARTF Cirrus Moth. This one was much bigger and a perfect replica of a Gypsy Major - even to the embossed DH on the alloy castings. An absolute gem of model engineering but, as John Harper says, built by a very skillful German model engineer more for love than money and certainly not a practical commercial proposition.

Laser make beautiful engines but, in the end, they have to make a profit, even if it's only to fund John's aeromodelling activities . It just doesn't make sense to manufacture engines when barely a handful would sell. My wife worked for a friend of ours who was manufacturing quite a sophisticated motor cycle (Silk 700s) with an engine loosely based on a Scott deflector piston twin cylinder 2 stroke. He was tremendously hardworking and enthusiastic but ultimately he was onto a loser but he certainly had fun for a while. I think every one sold at a loss.

Geoff

Geoff

I remember those Geoff! Cracking looking bikes wish I had the means at the time for one.

David Davis16/11/2017 04:19:35
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2671 forum posts
449 photos

Geoff

I remember those Geoff! Cracking looking bikes wish I had the means at the time for one.

+1 from me! thumbs up

Ron Gray16/11/2017 07:24:33
345 forum posts
111 photos

First on my shopping list would be the 90cc radial, quickly followed by the 100cc v twin!

Jon Harper - Laser Engines16/11/2017 08:41:40
3178 forum posts
130 photos

Tony. A batch of pre production engines are coming together now. Its painfully slow and im tearing my hair out trying to speed things up. I am still targeting the spring for a full release.

Bert, while i appreciate your enthusiasm and agree that the types of engines you have mentioned are interesting and very impressive none of them is a commercially viable product at this point in time. The problem with niche markets is that you immediately limit your sales. The smaller the market, the smaller the sales, the more expensive the item has to be. Given the number of people buying the types of engine you were mentioning, i do not think that there is room for another manufacturer at that level as 2-3 manufacturers are already there and the market is saturated.

Should the time come to do a niche market engine i will probably look to do something else, something that is not currently available as then there is no competition and you 'guarantee' yourself the limited orders in that niche.

The other thing is that my boss, and i to some degree, think that once you start getting up to 500cc or larger its not a model any more and you might as well just buy a microlight a learn to fly. Given this i would say its unlikely we will do anything over 250cc, which is not exactly a small engine.

John Stainforth16/11/2017 15:54:01
98 forum posts
30 photos

Jon,

How about a twin-row 14-cylinder radial...

... just teasing!

bert baker16/11/2017 16:20:49
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895 forum posts
192 photos

The laser range is well loved by many modellers,I would like a petrol four stroke for my Precedent Stampe as I have had about five with Laser 150's, now moved on to Zenoah G38, but am testing a NGH 38 four strokek,,,I think there is room in market place for a 40cc four stroke petrols as the choice is slim

But I wouldn't risk the core business if it has a strong order book just to keep up with others,

Jon Harper - Laser Engines16/11/2017 16:22:08
3178 forum posts
130 photos
Posted by John Stainforth on 16/11/2017 15:54:01:

Jon,

How about a twin-row 14-cylinder radial...

... just teasing!

I would love to, just for the fun of it but its not especially practical. My 90cc radial is a 3 cylinder design as its cheaper to make/sell, uses less parts, is lighter and should give better torque and have fewer mechanical losses. It wont be as pretty perhaps, but once its under a cowling noone will care

Jon Harper - Laser Engines16/11/2017 16:22:12
3178 forum posts
130 photos
Posted by John Stainforth on 16/11/2017 15:54:01:

Jon,

How about a twin-row 14-cylinder radial...

... just teasing!

I would love to, just for the fun of it but its not especially practical. My 90cc radial is a 3 cylinder design as its cheaper to make/sell, uses less parts, is lighter and should give better torque and have fewer mechanical losses. It wont be as pretty perhaps, but once its under a cowling noone will care

Jon Harper - Laser Engines16/11/2017 16:22:54
3178 forum posts
130 photos
Posted by bert baker on 16/11/2017 16:20:49:

The laser range is well loved by many modellers,I would like a petrol four stroke for my Precedent Stampe as I have had about five with Laser 150's, now moved on to Zenoah G38, but am testing a NGH 38 four strokek,,,I think there is room in market place for a 40cc four stroke petrols as the choice is slim

But I wouldn't risk the core business if it has a strong order book just to keep up with others,

 

 

Yup, 30, 40 and 50cc singles are on the cards. You have seen how my stampe works with the 30cc offering and that is what we are working on now. 

 

Sorry about the double post above, not sure why it did that, i only clicked it once

Edited By Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 16/11/2017 16:23:41

Manish Chandrayan16/11/2017 18:18:39
323 forum posts
50 photos
Jon a question for you. The 155 superceded the 150, but why did it not retain atleast the mounting dimensions of the 150? That would have made a replacement for many such an easy job
Jon Harper - Laser Engines16/11/2017 18:40:12
3178 forum posts
130 photos
Posted by Manish Chandrayan on 16/11/2017 18:18:39:
Jon a question for you. The 155 superceded the 150, but why did it not retain atleast the mounting dimensions of the 150? That would have made a replacement for many such an easy job

I tried, but a section of the crankcase came down to only .5mm thick and I was concerned it would eventually crack so 1mm was added to each side. This brought the material thickness back up to the level of the 150 which had been safe as houses for years.

As the change is only 2mm the engine can be made to fit an existing 150 installation. The mount should be removed, cut in half, and the firewall mount holes opened up a bit. It will then be possible to get it all back together again without too much fuss.

Tom Sharp 216/11/2017 18:49:39
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2512 forum posts
12 photos

Expanding into a new area of the market can sometimes fail big time.

Bolly props in Australia were a successful company exporting model props worldwide, they then ventured into much larger props for the Microlite market.

Unfortunately it proved more difficult the collect the money from the microlite brigade.

Result no Bolly prop company.

Manish Chandrayan17/11/2017 02:07:09
323 forum posts
50 photos
Didn't the Bolly go down due to legal action post a failed microlite/manned aircraft?

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