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My EME 60 petrol engine has arrived!

Lets have a closer look

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Adrian Smith 129/12/2016 09:07:14
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No probs ES. All suggestions are gratefully received. After all, hearing about the way others do things helps us understand there are all sort of methods to arrive at the same destination.

Timothy Harris 129/12/2016 09:28:46
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As said mineral oil is a poorer lube generally so can be used to break in less accurately machined engines. With synthetics some engines will stay tight. Stihl oil is synthetic. Their engines are very well machined, hardly need break in and run on 50:1 stihl synthetic. 😊 . People lovingly talk of Castor saving engines. It can do that in some circumstances as the engine will stall much more rapidly in an overheat lean situation as castor breaks down way quicker than synthetic oil. With synthetic oil the engine may still run in overheating lean situations so can cause more damage. Properly tuned engines using synthetic are much better though.

Adrian Smith 129/12/2016 10:24:03
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Got me puzzled there Timothy. On my Stihl HP 2T oil bottle it clearly states it is mineral oil. Are you say this is inaccurate?

Ultymate29/12/2016 11:44:08
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Stihl list three types of two stroke oil, the "cheapest" has a red dye in it and is a mineral oil which I have used for more years than I care to remember in all my chain saws strimmers and models and have never had a problem with. They now have a "medium" priced semi synthetic which has a green dye added and also with a green dye is their highest price fully synthetic Stihl Ultra. All can be run at 50:1 although I run all my gear at 40:1 working on the premise that oil is cheaper than engines

Levanter29/12/2016 11:46:30
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Could be some confusion because in an earlier thread, castor oil was categorised as a mineral oil when actually it is a vegetable oil pressed from a seed.
​Mineral oil has its base as a petroleum distillate which may be modified with various additives like detergents for various applications.
​Synthetic oil as its name suggests is manufactured using a number of ingredients designed to give specific properties or a range of properties.
​We are talking here about three different types of lubricant.

Timothy Harris 129/12/2016 16:56:50
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Just checked my Stihl oil can and yes it is the pink Mineral HT one ! I had wrongly believed it to be synthetic! Stihl say you can use that at 50.1 which we do and had also used that for years at 50.1 with no problems. Sorry should have read label but recently changed to premixed ! Regarding synthetic oils they do lube better according to the oil companies as said above. Stihl sell their green ultra oil at a premium. Recently we started using their long life "motomix" as it lasts ages . That is green and must have the ultra premium oil in it. The thing with motomix is it is low ethanol so doesn't take in water.

Timothy Harris 129/12/2016 17:28:27
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As Levanter says synthetic just refers to how the oil is derived. Synthetics are by chemical process rather than distilation, so are generally premium oils with quite specific purposes. Castor can be classed as a natural but I certainly don't want it in my engines 😊

Adrian Smith 107/01/2017 16:48:22
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Not the best morning I have ever had. I decided to run the EME 60 in the Inverza. The manual says the needle default positions are HS 1 5/8 and LS 1 2/3 (which is about the same in my book). I left them at that to see what happens. Using a starter with the choke on I gave the prop a spin with the throttle set at 1/4 open to fill the carby, or so I estimated. Anyway choke off, ignition on and another few spins, more than I would normal use and it eventually started. Like dope I advanced the throttle too quickly and it died on me face 21. In the process the starter packed up which is not surprising given I was running 24 volts through a, I think,12 volt starter. Ho Hum....

I decided to go back to the old fashioned method. I checked the plug just to make sure it looked wet enough. Jury out on that one, anyway onwards and upwards.

Back to the manual, choke on, ignition on (bit nervous about that I can tell you) and 1/4 throttle and flip away. Countless flips later nothing, not a cough as per the manual. Thought I would try it with the choke off (don't ask me why).

Anyway countless flips later with my arm dropping off I was about to give up when suddenly the engine sprang to life! smile p

Gently this time, I advanced the throttle and all was well and given the large tank on board ran it up and down for 20 minutes. Tick over was steady at the set 1900 RPM with full chat 6000 RPM on a 24x8 prop which it about what I expected for a new engine.

Anyway, I refilled the tank ready to go again. Engine still warm so I left the choke of, advanced the throttle, ignition on away we go ........ NOT!. This time not a dickie bird at all after countless flips so with my arm about to fall off I gave up.

Two observations. In my flipping process the engine backfired twice which I assume was because the throttle was too far advanced. Second look at the plug suggest the mixture was about right which is a plus point.

All the advice I have read is that with any obstinate new engine the most likely reason is fuel delivery so that will be my first port of call and check the plumbing. The fact the engine ran suggests it can't be a major fuelling fault although I do note that the line from the tank to the carby is quite long and can be shortened somewhat. Any other suggestions gladly accepted! I had had enough today so I will look at it next week.

cymaz07/01/2017 17:01:54
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I know from experience with both my Evo 33gx's that they do like to be very wet to start.....even when warm. Just try and open the LSN 1/16.

Rocking the prop back and fro a good few times will draw up the fuel then a few flick over with choke shut. Then flip start with choke on until it fires. Choke off bit of throttle and you will be off.....I hope.

It might be a learning curve to find what the engine start up procedure is best.....Good luck.

Adrian Smith 107/01/2017 17:17:16
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Yes Cymaz, I am sure I read somewhere the EME likes to be quite wet to start. I will open the LSN a tad as you suggest too. I suppose I was just spoilt with how easy the OS 60s started right out of the box. Without messing about too much I will just check the carby bolts in case they are loose. I will report back when I have had another go.

cymaz07/01/2017 17:19:19
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Mind your shoulder crying

Rich too07/01/2017 18:52:54
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sad

Adrian, I hand start all my petrols and now have experience of three different brands, and whilst they are slightly different they all like lots of fuel to start. I also tend to leave on an advance idle for a good minute or so to warm up - then I have no problems throttling upand down.

When you are getting fuel to the carb, choke off, ign off, in my experience you should use wot to get the fuel in there.

Then I reduce to about 1/3 throttle (not much less), and ign on.

When you get the first pop, choke off and flip again.

Zenoahs (like a lot of fuel ), DLE and the OS all start well by hand using that procedure. I wonder whether you are not getting enough fuel in to begin with - wot should sort that.

You should get a pop without much effort. My Zenoah actually likes a squirt of fuel down the carb inlet!!!

Good luck yes

Edited By Rich2 on 07/01/2017 18:53:20

Edited By Rich2 on 07/01/2017 18:53:57

Adrian Smith 107/01/2017 20:03:05
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Having thought about it this evening you are probably right Rich. I just think there is not enough priming to start with. Witness the fact the first time around it started albeit not straight away. I am being thick here what does "wot" mean?

Anyway I will give it another go next week.

Edited By Adrian Smith 1 on 07/01/2017 20:09:56

cymaz07/01/2017 20:04:29
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Wide Open Throttle

jrman07/01/2017 20:04:58
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Wide open throttle.

Adrian Smith 107/01/2017 20:09:12
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Yes Cymaz, jrman. I have just read a passage in a R/C petrol engine guide book that states when priming the engine fully open the throttle is best with the choke on. And yes I was a bit thick WOT is pretty obvious really dooooh!

Adrian Smith 111/01/2017 16:33:26
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Today was a good day. Thanks to the good advice here about WOT priming I have now got the measure the of EME 60. Three quick spins with choke closed with WOT, then open choke, 1/4 throttle and ignition on - two quick spins with the starter and away we go!

p1040264.jpg

Darn it! I didn't think it was going to that easy. Ran the engine for a total of 40 minutes using STIHL 2T mineral oil mixed at 32/1. LSN at 1 1/2 turns and HSN at 1 5/8. Seems about right, but will review it when I take to the air on the next decent day. Each time I followed the same starting procedure with similar results thumbs up.

p1040266.jpgI will tidy up the wiring before anything else. Given the engine has done a total of 60minutes running the tickover is remarkably steady with a consistent 6200 RPM full chat using a standard canister exhaust on a 24x8 prop. That will improve though with use I am sure.

First signs are very good for this engine and so I am one happy bunny! laugh When is the next decent flying day I ask myself.............?

Edited By Adrian Smith 1 on 11/01/2017 16:33:39

Edited By Adrian Smith 1 on 11/01/2017 16:34:04

Gary Manuel11/01/2017 16:59:52
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Posted by Adrian Smith 1 on 11/01/2017 16:33:26:

Darn it! I didn't think it was going to that easy.

No satisfying some folk!

Glad you got it running Adrian.

cymaz11/01/2017 17:14:59
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Hoooraaaaayyyyy! yes

Rich too11/01/2017 19:24:34
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Excellent news well done Adrian yes

The weather forecast on the other hand...sad

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