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Chris's Vicomte 1916

... aka the Baron 1914 or the Svenson Vicomte 1915

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McG 696907/01/2018 18:21:48
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2052 forum posts
870 photos

Hello again everybody,

The Christmas decorations have been boxed, the reindeers are back home, Rudolf’s hangover is… ‘over’, so I thought this was about the right moment to start the Vicomte 1916 build.

Although Gaston is still having some ski holidays, we can have a go with a bit of history.

At the end of the sixties, the original Baron was designed on the edge of a kitchen table by Christian Chauzit as a trainer for one of his friends. It looked a bit like - very stand off, in fact - a simplified Fokker Eindecker but with oversized tailplanes for easier training purposes.

009_fokker_eindecker.jpg

Christian was working for the French ‘Modèle Magazine’ and his boss, Mr Briot, allowed him to have his plan blue-printed in the mag. But there was no kit available at the time and everyone had to build it from the free plan and hundreds of them were built. Here’s the original published drawing.

010_baron_dessin_original_800.jpg

The designer himself realized it really looked ugly, so some ‘alterations’ were planned soon enough.

Later Mr Briot locally produced a kit named ‘Baron 1914’. Here is a (bad) picture of the plans included at the time.

007_baron14_plan_briot_900.jpg

He also granted a licence to Belgian Svenson Models from Moerkerke (near Bruges) to have a kit - named the ‘Vicomte 1915’ - manufactured for international distribution.

An annual cup, named ‘Coupe des Barons’ is created, the Barons are still built in even more massive quantities and it becomes one of the most famous trainers in France and… in Belgium as well.

The Baron will have some ‘cousins’, like the Ferber with low wings or the Duke with parasol wing. Here is a Svenson Duke.

008_svenson_duke_900.jpg

Many modellers built it at the original size, also at 200% or larger, sometimes smaller as well, like for indoor flight at 50%… sometimes with ailerons, floats or skis...

(to be continued)

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR History Control

 

Edited By McG 6969 on 07/01/2018 18:25:03

john stones 107/01/2018 18:29:47
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9239 forum posts
1412 photos

Good choice Chris, some simple bits to build confidence and enough tricky stuff to push you, good preparation for the Fury build. yes

Nice looking model as well. wink

John....get a move on Control.

McG 696907/01/2018 19:40:54
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2052 forum posts
870 photos

Thank you, John.

Very kind of you to comment here.

Just as you wrote, some "simple bits" together with some more 'complicated' stuff, for me at least.

I was planning since a while to have a tribute to the Svenson family of kits and certainly to José's courage to bring this kit back to life. But very true that it will push my limits and hopefully give me some appropriate preparation to the Fury Class.

Thanks again & keep up the mojo, it's a good un, me thinks. wink

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR Progress Control

Steven Shaw07/01/2018 20:24:45
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218 forum posts
138 photos

I still plan on building one and will be following your progress. I have my plans unrolled and will be marking them up with any hints you pass along as you do your build.

Levanter07/01/2018 20:39:30
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706 forum posts
346 photos

Nice one Chris!
​Will be watchin' ya.
Levanter

David Davis08/01/2018 09:11:14
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2851 forum posts
480 photos

I will be watching your build with interest. This is a picture of mine, modified to incorporate ailerons, as yet unflown.

baron (3).jpg

I am toying with entering the Coupe Des Barons this year but as the venue is a five hour drive from La Creuse, none of my club colleagues are interested in joining me! I will have to make another wing as ailerons are not permitted in the event. I will also have to fit a pilot, dummy flying wires and a machine gun to be eligible. There are several light-hearted rounds to the competition including a pylon race, a limbo event, knocking over balsa or foam one metre high sticks and chasing a trainer towing a paper streamer and cutting it off with your propeller. The attrition rate is enormous!

McG 696908/01/2018 13:09:45
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2052 forum posts
870 photos

Thank you for visiting and commenting, gents.

@ Steven > I hope at least there will be 'something' for you to pick up from my build. Please remember it's my first balsa build. When you have a go with the Outerzone Vicomte plan, don't forget that the scan is slightly 'warped' and, for example that the fuse longerons are not really straight. So, may I suggest that you should use a straight ruler to build your fuselage sides instead of just following the drawing to pin your wood.

@ Levanter > great to have you here. Are you going to have a build blog when you start the GTC?

@ David > I will build mine as a 2 axis trainer as per plan first, but as I have a second set of wing ribs the idea is to have one with ailerons as well later.

Aaah... La Coupe des Barons... I would like to sit in that event at least once, but it's a bit early time for now, I'm afraid.

Is it still in that little place (Sainte Marie d'Alloix?) between Chambéry and Grenoble?

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR La Coupe Control

Martyn K08/01/2018 13:19:13
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4537 forum posts
3162 photos

Hi Chris

I would build with ailerons from the start. IMHO, aileron control models are easier to fly and are actually more sympathetic to less experienced fliers. R/E models can be a little sluggish. Just reduce the dihedral a little - just to make sure that it is still responsive enough without being overly sensitive.

McG 696908/01/2018 18:01:52
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2052 forum posts
870 photos

Thank you for jumping in and for your advice, Martyn.

I was planning to start with some lightened wing ribs which are not suitable to integrate ailerons as there is not enough material at the right place. I'm also planning to use the plain ribs for a later build including ailerons -probably building a 'shoulder' mounted wing instead of 'on top' - and with reinforced spars following the later Super Baron design. But I really have to learn to walk before having a run... angel

Aside that compatibility problem and after reading a lot of reviews, it doesn't appear that the Vicomte is 'lazy' at all with R/E only. Very probably due to XL rudder.

Thanks again & hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR R/E Control

McG 696908/01/2018 21:05:53
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2052 forum posts
870 photos

Hi again,

(continued)

After Briot ceased his activities, Baron Models took over the die forms and later Svenson sold his licences to a Spanish manufacturer, which has apparently ‘disappeared’ as well.

Obviously, original Svenson Vicomte kits became extremely rare and are quite expensive nowadays.

Early 2016, a small group of Belgian modellers bundled together and recreated a CAD drawing, .dxf files & a laser short-kit following the original Svenson Vicomte 1915 drawing.

vicomte_fuselage_render02.jpg

vicomte_fuselage_render03.jpg

As there were 4 of them to ‘participate’ to the project, they initially called their product the ‘Mousquetaire 1916’, the French translation for Musketeer. Unfortunately, the group got split after only the two first prototypes were on their way to be finished, but one of the Musketeers, José, decided to proceed with the kit nevertheless.

José is a carpenter from the Liège area, also running a laser engraving and cutting business. He also decided to ‘redraw’ the Svenson plans as their Outerzone copy isn’t very accurate - read distorted - probably due to an uncalibrated scanner. José drew both fuselage views in ‘shoulder to shoulder’ position and, even better, both half-wings.

a016_vicomte_1916_page_1.jpg

a017_vicomte_1916_page_2.jpg

He modified the basic kit to make it more complete, including a build up cowl, some sheeting for the wing & fuselage center section, a machine gun and a pre-bent undercarriage. He also took the decision to go back to the kit’s original Belgian name… and the ‘Vicomte 1916’ was born...

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR History #2 Control

Andy Ellis 108/01/2018 21:24:47
11 forum posts
5 photos

I'd agree that they're quite expensive now - I sold my kit early 2015 for over £75. Looks like they're a good flier with a low wing loading.

David Davis09/01/2018 05:30:53
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2851 forum posts
480 photos
Posted by McG 6969 on 08/01/2018 13:09:45:

Aaah... La Coupe des Barons... I would like to sit in that event at least once, but it's a bit early time for now, I'm afraid.

Is it still in that little place (Sainte Marie d'Alloix?) between Chambéry and Grenoble?

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR La Coupe Control

Yes the Coupe Des Barons competition takes place at Ste Marie d'Alloix this year, 294 miles or 473 kilometres away from here.

As for the price of kits. a Belgian firm called Scale Dreams is selling them for 89€. **LINK**

McG 696909/01/2018 17:45:54
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2052 forum posts
870 photos

Hello gents,

@ Andy > your buyer must be lucky then as in BE the original unbuilt & complete Svenson goes easily over € 200... frown

@ David > thanks for the link to 'ScaleDreams', but they're a bit 'strange' as they have nearly nothing in stock except for a few kits that the guy designed himself. If you place an order, they get one themselves and ship it over when it arrives.

Anyway it's a French 'Baron Models' kit - die cut and not laser cut - that you can find a bit cheaper in France. IIRC the ribs and spars are different from the Vicomte kit. Maybe I should write "could find" here as they seem to become rare in France as well. If I remember well, I think that it's the same kit that you used for your own Baron... ?

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR Baron Control

David Davis10/01/2018 04:46:30
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2851 forum posts
480 photos

My kit was produced by Baron Modeles and came in a simple cardboard box with a small printed label stuck to the left hand side.

Martyn K10/01/2018 10:25:26
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4537 forum posts
3162 photos

That looks like a huge Fin/Rudder. Probably needed due to the dihedral and lack of ailerons.

Martyn

David Davis10/01/2018 11:06:39
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2851 forum posts
480 photos

Well a Junior 60 has even more dihedral but a much smaller fin and rudder! laugh

junior 60.jpg

Djay10/01/2018 17:34:35
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540 forum posts
445 photos

I built the Svenson version many years ago powered by a OS 40 four stroke I purchased in 1987. It is still flying regularly today and is one of my favourite flyers.

It is 3 channel, on 35mhz radio and flies so slow and stable. In windy conditions it will just hover and even fly backwards. A real vintage style plane and really easy to build.

Darryl

McG 696910/01/2018 19:30:16
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2052 forum posts
870 photos

Thanks, gents.

The ScaleDreams kit appears to be the same as yours, David.

It's a die cut 'Baron Models' one, but most of the dealers/shops still use the fancy coloured box on their webstores. The more recent kits came - as yours very probably - in a white carton box with a small B/W label on it. Trying to get the costs down, I guess.

I was wondering why a majority of French shops were showing the Baron 1914 "out of stock'. So I did a bit of research and discovered that the producing company went in receivership in November 2017... frown The recess isn't proper to UK modeling companies, it seems...

Absolutely, Martyn. That fin/rudder really is 'huge', but I guess that makes the bird so distinctive.

Somewhere you reassured and motivated me with your comment, Darryl. So you are still 'bathing' your Vicomte in "camel poo" now ... wink

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR Poo Control

McG 696911/01/2018 19:01:18
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2052 forum posts
870 photos

Hi to all again,

I thought there was enough history now, enough words, so let’s have a few pictures of the kit instead.

Normally there are the two sheets of plans - already shown - but as I bought a second set of ribs, José provided me a third one. The drawing shows the wings with ailerons, including both bell crank use - Peter would love it - and dual ailerons choice.

000_vic_plans_900.jpg

As I didn’t need another large cardboard box, I had the IDEA to take a large yellow/blue Swedish bag to collect the bits. angel Perfect as José packs all the kit sub-assemblies in individual plastic bags.

003_vic_centersection_900.jpg

The wing center section & wing tips

005_vic_ribs_900.jpg

The wing ribs / please note that as a real carpenter, José doesn’t like to waste some wood smiley

011_vic_tailplanes_900.jpg

The rudder & tailplanes

014_vic_formers_900.jpg

The main formers & u/c beam

019_vic_cowl_uc_900.jpg

The cowl, some fixings & the pre-bent u/c wires

022_vic_plyribs_900.jpg

… and finally the ply set of lightened ribs.

There’s is also some pre cut 1,5mm balsa sheeting for the centre section and top & bottom of the fuselage. In fact all one has to supply are the ‘longer’ strips like spars and fuselage longerons.

Of course, I have no experience at all with kits or short kits, but I’m quite happy. yes

Also pleased with the very ‘soft’ engraving of all the bits. I guess José might be a bit like me, slightly ‘autistic’ as well... blush

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR Kit Control

Andy G.11/01/2018 19:06:08
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371 forum posts
215 photos

Hi Chris...

Loving the quality of those parts! This looks like being an interesting build. I have to admit the aircraft is not really my 'cup of tea', but luckily I can appreciate a good build when I see one..

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