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What Happens Next

A talk on dealing with accidents and medical emergencies at the flying field

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The Wright Stuff09/02/2018 15:22:03
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Posted by ken anderson. on 09/02/2018 13:13:05:

--the poor victim would probably pass out with shock-and possibly bleed to death time they were out.....

Ken, I appreciate your (and others) stance on flying alone, but it misses the point that I was trying to make: what to do!

'probably pass out'

Absolutely. So what can I do to minimise the chances of this happening? Sit down? Raise the limb? Stem the blood flow? I understand it's likely to be terrifically difficult on one's own, but surely that's even more reason for training to help stay calm.

'bleed to death'.

Well if it happens, it happens. But if there's even a small chance to save myself, I'm going to take it. Perhaps I can't dress it myself. But I'd rather die trying than sit back and die anyway.

Don Fry09/02/2018 15:26:12
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First aid in this game, apart from the age related strokes and heart attacks is fairly simple. Buy say 4 off, 4 to 6 inch wound dressings, for each flight box. Slap on as necessary. If it bleeds through slap another on over it. Don't remove first dressing. If it comes through again you are bleeding to death. Get help.

Apart from wound dressings, most of the content of a first aid box is cosmetic, for people pretending to be doctors.

The wound dressings in even big first aid kits are too small. In an emergency to haven't got time to think what size do I need, just get on with it. Have a look at the wound dressing locker in a casualty department , no small ones in there.

Stroke recognition, heart attack recognition, NHS website offers clues. Look before you NEED that information. A first aid course is good. So you can help if needed, rather than be the Burke standing there looking useless.

And a finger off will not cause you to bleed out. Even without a wound dressing the body will probabably stop the bleeding. Try functioning is a different matter. And while I'm having a rant, an ambulance is only a good option if the crew will do some good, getting the casualty to hospital yourself may be the optimal solution.

Edited By Don Fry on 09/02/2018 15:27:37

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator09/02/2018 15:32:12
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One of the precautions we took when flying professionally was to buy a old fashioned push button mobile phone. A smat phone with GPS and all that can be useful, the problem is that if your fingers are bleeding badly the screen would react, or reacts unpredictably - so you can't use it. Belt and braces says "have both"!

BEB

ken anderson.09/02/2018 15:45:53
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the wright stuff.....i'm not getting to you or anyone- more so the lads who fly alone.the case I mentioned where we had the difficulty telling the emergency services our location was an eye opener...... ie :- blood everywhere, the lad concerned is in his later years so part of the concern was secondary ailments etc with the loss of blood...a first aid kit was of no use.....as the blood flow was really strong.we had to wrap his arm with old (clean) rags and tape them on,and as I mentioned they said he had lost a fair amount of the red stuff...I looked like a mass murder,covered in it...imagine red hot day a lovely congealed blood all over you....anyway luckily there was a few people present at the site so myself and a couple of others chipped in to help him....... may be a good idea if clubs had a "training day" just to see how they would cope on site with an "incident"

 

Andy and C Anderson........ sorry for going way off topic......

 

ken Anderson...ne...1....... save the blood dept.

Edited By ken anderson. on 09/02/2018 15:47:09

Denis Watkins09/02/2018 15:59:06
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Posted by The Wright Stuff on 09/02/2018 11:18:59:

With respect to Denis' comments about not flying alone, I think that while it may not be ideal, we have to recognise that it happens, in some cases very frequently. I very often fly alone. If I didn't, I'd hardly fly at all.

Therefore like-it-or-not, it seems that self-help should also be a useful topic to cover. I have a mobile phone, and a car door pocket full of bandages and finger cots. Could I do something useful with my one good hand? I hope so!

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/02/2018 14:38:4

Thus far, your normal routine he kept you out of trouble and should continue to do so.

Positives are that you carry bandages etc already

Have your phone speed dials set to useful contacts, so you just press one button

Get your field coordinates NOW, from Google Earth, or from your Sat Nav

My Sat Nav has a get help button

Make sure your useful contacts have the field coordinates too

Have long tie wraps available, these are very useful around limbs and bandages

To stress

You current safety routine is already proven, so stick to that

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator09/02/2018 16:17:29
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On a philosophical point (!) while I would not fly alone myself - I'm not prepared to accept the risks - I would defend any fellow flyer's right to do so if they wish. This topic has been raised at our AGM on more than one occassion with a view to making a club rule on the issue and I'm glad to say that we agreed to take the view that, while we strongly advise against it, we would not make a club rule that bans it. I think this has to be a decision for each pilot.

That being the case I would endorse what TWS says - if people are going to do it we need to give them the best advice we can about what to do in the event of a serious accident where they are seriously injured - it maybe a slim chance in some cases, but its better than no chance!

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/02/2018 16:19:13

The Wright Stuff09/02/2018 16:26:43
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Thanks BEB,

On a sad note, last month an old friend of my mother's was found dead at her home. She lived alone. It transpired that she had choked to death while eating a packet of M&Ms.

So even eating alone can be fatal!

I was going to say 'food for thought', but that seemed distasteful. So instead, I'll say 'live life to the full'.

Ian Moody09/02/2018 16:28:09
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Blimey, Chill out a bit lads, were none of you in the armed forces? A bit of common sense is all you require. There is no need for the hysteria that is evident here. You are not going to bleed to death in a short time like 30 minutes especially with pressure to the wound etc. Just keep calm and sort it out and don't get all excited about a bit of blood and a shocked patient. It's unbelievable that someone should suggest not flying on your own when that's all you want to do sometimes. Lots of us have had blade strikes to the fingers. I have had one to the bone but packed my gear up and went to get it stitched no problem.

Calm down and think about it.

Don Fry09/02/2018 16:38:24
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Aaarrrrrr Ian, but some cope, some don't. Training, mindset, self respect, to keep others respect, all different

Ian Moody09/02/2018 17:01:43
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Exactly Don, Mindset. Keep calm and carry on. Self respect and others respect? Explain that one please.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator09/02/2018 17:21:54
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I think all Don is saying is we must respect the fact that we are all different. Some will find coping in that situation easier than others will.
BEB
PatMc09/02/2018 17:57:46
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Posted by C Anderson on 01/02/2018 19:07:13:

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT

Open to all BMFA Members it could be you next

It's been a great days flying when suddenly there's a thud followed by a scream

"MY FINGERS ARE OFF"

Panic takes over but should it?

How bad is it?

What do you do next?

 

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT

 

Free pie and peas. Booking via email only (will be confirmed via email) a voucher will be available on arrival at the talk.

 

Free pie and peas please email to book your voucher

 

"Free pie & peas" ?

Surely attendance at this talk warrants a finger buffet.

Edited By PatMc on 09/02/2018 17:59:17

ChrisB09/02/2018 18:08:49
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I think it comes down to the management of risk. Particularly in big clubs with 7 day access, many members are strangers to one another, who happen to be in the same club. The ability to arrange with one another to go flying at the same time is often difficult.

I think it comes down to the processes a club has in place, such as a first aid kid, model restraint and incident reporting and appropriate training. Risk will never be removed and injuries will always occur regardless of being alone or otherwise.For example, I've often been distracted by fellow members while I've been at the sharp end of a model, if they weren't there, i'd not be distracted and risk would be reduced, again it comes down to education.

There isn't a simple solution.

Ian Moody09/02/2018 18:10:46
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I quite agree we are all different and we all react differently and I respect that but I found some of the posts quite alarmist about a subject that can be sorted out in a calm manner.I have witnessed quite a few propeller strikes to the fingers in the last 35 years I have been flying model aircraft so am not in the dark about the situations that arise from this happening.

Still don't understand the self respect aspect yet though until someone explains where I have gone wrong?

This would be so much easier to discuss face to face rather than on a computer aaagh.

john stones 109/02/2018 18:27:26
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I don't see owt wrong with the BMFA running a day on first aid, and pie n peas sounds very nice. wink Advise folk against flying alone if you believe that, but leave it there, how long we been doing this hobby and how many fatalities from flying alone ?

Most clubs have folk with disabilities, angina, high blood pressure and a host of other problems, what obstacles have we put in these peoples way as regards to enjoying their hobby ? leave folk alone to make their own choices.

David Mellor09/02/2018 18:36:03
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A sense of proportion helps, allied to a bit of common sense.

 

Perhaps we should start another alarmist thread on the hazards of coconuts. Or beds. Or the weather.

 

Approximately 150 deaths annually are caused worldwide by falling coconuts, along with hundred of injuries.

 

Nearer to home, in a typical year in the UK 5 people will die from lightning strikes and around 20 from simply falling out of bed in the morning.

 

A male, over-60 years of age BMFA member's risk of death or serious injury is dominated by a very long list of factors wholly unrelated to propellers. In the UK in a typical year some ten thousand people are injured from pulling on their socks (assuming the grim reaper didn't pick them off when they tumbled out of bed in the first place).

 

Get a life. And enjoy it while it lasts.......

Edited By David Mellor on 09/02/2018 18:38:17

Ian Moody09/02/2018 18:47:13
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I wish I had put it like that David... Well said

john stones 109/02/2018 18:53:32
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Don't start me on trees surprise old folk climbing them to retrieve models that get stuck, no relevant training nor C.E marked personal protective/safety equipment, still if you fall out of one and suffer serious injury, best have someone else there to chat with. wink

David Mellor09/02/2018 19:15:56
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If one has a sense of grandeur then it is as well to have company during one's final moments in order to record one's last words.

Perhaps the most fitting to this thread might be those of Denis Diderot - French philosopher who expired July 1784.

He said (in French, naturellement) "But how the devil do you think this could harm me?"

Don Fry09/02/2018 19:35:39
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Posted by Ian Moody on 09/02/2018 17:01:43:

Exactly Don, Mindset. Keep calm and carry on. Self respect and others respect? Explain that one please.

You cope because you do, it's what you do. Or you cope, because your mate expects you to cope, and if you don't, you can't look him in the eye again.

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