Nearly finished my Chris Foss Middle Phase

Hi folks, I am finally nearing completion of Middle Phase, with just a few small jobs left to do. This is my first RC "build" and to my surprise it looks like it might actually fly!

I'll soon be ready to cover it and before I take the plunge and order the solarfilm, I wanted a bit of advice...

Even while working on finishing the fuselage and wings, some balsa parts have obtained a few small dings and I'm worried that once I'm flying it off a rocky slope somewhere, it's going to get bashed up pretty quickly. Does anyone have any tips or tricks of how I can strengthen the areas I see getting dented (I was thinking nose, underside of fuselage and leading edge of wing) without adding too much weight?

I'm aware that applying some glass-fibre is an option, but given my first experience of this was just last night applying wing bandage, I'm not sure I've got the expertise to make a good job of this and not add so much weight to the model, it affects the flight characteristics.

I heard one method to add some strength to the LE of the wing with not much weight was to find a carbon fibre pipe, cut in half down the length of it and apply this to the LE. My concern with this is it would ruin the shape of the nicely sanded LE I spent so much time on. Has anyone tried this themselves?

Any other tips on this gratefully appreciated.

Regarding covering the model, I've got a decent iron with a temperature readout, and there's enough guides on doing it that I'm fairly happy with this. I'm going for a dark red fuselage with white wings and stabiliser but red ailerons and elevator (saw a Phase 6 on Google Images with a similar scheme that I thought looked smart but straight forward). Perhaps the underneath of the wing will have red or black and white stripes to differentiate it from the top.

A big thanks to Alex Leigh and his build blog by the way, and indeed all those who contributed to it, as it was a great reassurance whilst I was building mine to check the decent photos and comments

Lightweight glass cloth & Poly C perhaps???

Hi Ian,

I too built one of these a few years ago, and more recently a Phase 6.

I passed the Middlephase on to a colleague who was learning and, despit a lot of rough landings, it is still flying.

The weak point is the fuselage from the wing seat forward and ideally it needs glassing throughout the inside. It's easier than you think and on the inside, the finish does not really matter.

I didn't find the wing leading edge of the wing too much of a problem as the covering toughens it up a lot.

Profilm (Oracover) IMO is far better and easier to apply than Solarfilm, yet that Solartex stuff is great for covering the fus.

Hope this helps and good luck with a great model.

Peter

Edited By Peewhit on 24/04/2012 18:35:29

This was my first "glassing job" and I found it much easier than I expected!

Go for it!

For strength as mentioned above good idea to glass the inside of the front fuselage and best to glass the bottom of the fuselage at the front on the outside where it will slide along the ground when landing (any small stones or grit in the grass tends to leave marks and scratches).

Here is the white and red colour scheme on my Phase 6. Fuselage and tail dope/tissue and car spray paint then wings covered in profilm.

Edited By John A H on 25/04/2012 04:48:10

Red and white does look quite good.

Fully glassed and spray painted, plus flaps and all moving tail.

Thanks for the help. I've decided I'm going to buy some Poly-C and some glass-fibre cloth then do some tests on some scrap wood to see how well I can do it before committing to doing it on my model.

Is Deluxe Materials 0.6oz Fibre Glass Cloth ok for my purposes? Also, do I need to use some sort of sealer first, as reading about Poly-C elsewhere on this forum, some people suggest this is required, yet others don't seem to mention it at all? I see that RCWorld.co.uk sell Poly-C and sanding sealer as a pack, soI might get this to be on the safe side.

Ooh, and another question, I assume there's no problem with putting solarfilm or oracover or whatever over a "fibred" area of the plane? Not really anywhere suitable for spray painting in my house and no back garden

Oracover seems a bit pricey but I'll see if I can ebay a few things to cover it!

Nice looking models by the way.

Hi Ian,

0.6oz should be fine for the wing leading edge. You should not need sanding sealer as an initial coat of Poly-C before you put the cloth on should seal the wood.

Oracover will stick to a glass surface as it has an adhesive layer.

I used to use Solarfilm. Now I don't.

For the inside of the fus, I would use 2oz glass cloth and resin.

The fus will also be a lot stronger with a "material" outside covering such as Solartex.

Good luck,

Peter.

In the process of ordering stuff, just a quick Q. to those of you who fully fibre-glassed your Middle Phase... any idea how much extra weight it added to the model over just covering it with solarfilm or similar and what was the mininum wind speed you found you needed for launching it off a slope?

And for those who haven't fibre-glassed theirs, what's the minimum wind speed you've been able to fly off a slope in?

Ta, can't wait for stuff to arrive and crack on with getting it finished now

Hi Ian,

I forgot to ask if your Middlephase is the aileron version, and if so, where did you put the aileron servo(s)?

Now, as to glassing and weight.

I didn't glass the Middlephase - that was the Phase 6 which I built last year.

I also did some internal fus reinforcement on the P6 and have four wing servos as opposed to the original design for only one.

All up weight is 60oz compared to a "typical" 42oz.

For slope soaring, additional weight (to a degree) does not matter very much - in fact the Phase 6 needs some ballast.

Both the Phase 6 and Middlephase have very efficient wings - launch them in a good blow and they just rise up.

A heavier model flies faster and that means that the wing is generating more lift which compensates for the increased weight.

I also fly mouldies and even in light conditions I usually put some ballast in because it does improve performance.

Back to the Middlephase.

On a good slope it is happy in anything from 10pmh+.

One day I arrived at the slope with mine and was frustrated (to say the least) because the wind was much more than forcasted, and measured 40mph on the edge.

Adopting my usual "sod it" approach to slope soaring, I just chucked it off - and it flew superbly.

It really is a cracking model.

Hi Peter,

I've fitted an aileron servo (HS82MG) in each wing, with the cable going through the polystyrene to the LE and then along to the middle. It took a while to build up the nerve to cut into the veneer to make the hatches but once I did, it went fairly smoothly. I think I've been a bit excessive in reinforcing the hatch walls but I figured better that than too little.

Ta for the tips on weight etc, amazing to think it can fly in a 40mph wind (don't think I'll be trying that to begin with though). What do you use for ballast and how do you attach it?

Oh, went for Solarfilm in the end. Added all the Oracover to the basket, looked at the total cost and decided I just couldn't justify it, particularly with baby number 2 having popped out a couple of weeks ago and our whole budget going on nappies and other such stuff! Maybe on the next model (Phase 6?? )

No more questions now I promise. I'll pop a piccie and a flight report up when it's finished.

Hi Ian,

Don't worry about any ballast for the Middlephase, it will fly very well without any.

Do you want someone to maiden it for you?

My P6 also white and red............but mixed together

Rehab is a slimmed down Middle phase 1.5" wide and a clipped 58" wing

I've  also made a 58" epler 374 wing for her

And that orange thing (which is no longer) was a P6 pro wing

Edited By FWAL on 26/04/2012 19:20:57

Just love that "red and white" P6.

How many Middlephases and P6s do you think Chris Foss has sold over the many years that they have been available?

Curses, just typed my post, then got distracted and clicked on a picture above, losing my post in the process!

How many Middle Phases and Phase 6s? Lots I imagine Surely thousands if not more.

Think I will try the maiden myself, well, with the help of a friend anyway. I enjoy the maidening in a terrifying, white-knuckles on transmitter kind of way. When I got my Radian, my first plane, after a month I'd got bored waiting for suitable weather and took it out in what must have been 15-20 mph winds. Nearly didn't get it back but after 5 minutes (which felt a lot longer!), with the motor on full I fought back against the wind and even got it to land at my feet This time I'll be a lot wiser on when and where I launch the Middle Phase.

Nice colour scheme FWAL. That's exactly what I'm planning for mine (except more dark red than purple/pink). Simple but smart I reckon

Everything's neraly arrived now, one more parcel to come and I can crack on with finishing it, hoorah! The wife has suggested we add up how much all the "little" extras have cost, think it's time to have a purge of my receipts and emails

I'd love a Phase 6 Pro but have no space for building, or the necessary tools. I've been looking for one coming up second hand which isn't to far away for me to collect, but no joy so far.

nicest fossy glider i had was on that had been wood stained on the fuzz, then varnised with kingston hard high gloss varnish wings where covered in cream film, with red trim, as was the tail end, fossy transfers completed it, and everyone complimented it, it even looked well after the crash, when i lost it, and it slammed full pelt downwind into the cliff i was flying off,

Hi Ian, I'd definately go for lightweight glass cloth, The key is to use an acrylic resin, which is water based.

ernie

Hi Ian,

Went to the east coast today with the wind measuring 30mph on the edge.

The Phase 6 flew superbly (without any ballast) and so would your Middlephase have.

Managed to prang the Typhooon in a heavily buffeted landing zone, but the Phase 6 managed several flights undamaged.

Edited By IanH on 02/07/2012 11:44:02

Edited By IanH on 02/07/2012 11:45:04

Edited By Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 02/07/2012 12:21:53

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 02/07/2012 12:33:42