Gary Manuel

That comes later on my list. At the moment, I am giving Nissan Customer Services a chance to deal with it. PS. It's not just using it at night that's the problem. It's illegal for any vehicle under 2 Tonnes to have one fitted at all in the UK. Can you imagine the sound of Asda car park in a few years time if all cars sounded like this? The poor old blind person wouldn't know which way to turn. That's why it's illegal and that's why Tesla's, BMWs etc don't have them fitted.

Yes, I could have it silenced within minutes (I listed the options a couple of pages back), but then I'd become liable in the event of an accident and would invalidate the insurance, warranty and terms of lease. I want to silence it the proper way, by getting the manufacturer to fix what I consider to be a manufacturing defect.

It would appear that the legality of the reversing alarm is not a new issue to Nissan. They were forced to delay the sale of UK models back in 2011 for this very reason!!! I'm not sure what has changed since then, other than the recent introduction of the requirement for AVAS. I suspect that they have just shoe-horned the existing reversing alarm sound into the new AVAS system and run with it. My view is that if the reversing beeper was illegal in 2011, then it is still illegal today. Source: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/8880765.nissan-leaf-facing-delay/

Jon. Convince your boss at work that he needs an upgrade and then offer to dispose of the old one 😉

If you read my last post, they should be off at all times. Reversing alarms are reserved for HGVs, busses, plant etc. It is illegal for any car to have a reversing alarm AT ANY TIME!

They might ignore it but I won't unless they give me a valid answer. I don't know whether they are fitted as standard, but if they are, there is a legal requirement for them to be switched off at night (99.(1)(b) below) and in sensitive locations. Here's the complete legislation below. Note that according to (my) emboldened text in part 99(3) this legislation, the Nissan Leaf should not be fitted with one at all - BUT being an EV, it now introduces the new AVAS (simulated engine sound), which applies to reversing as well as forwards driving. This is where the confusion between the reversing beeper and the reversing AVAS sound is coming from. ************************************************************************************ 99.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs, no person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded, any horn, gong, bell or siren fitted to or carried on a vehicle which is— (a)stationary on a road, at any time, other than at times of danger due to another moving vehicle on or near the road; or (b)in motion on a restricted road, between 23.30 hours and 07.00 hours in the following morning. (2) The provisions of paragraph (1)(a) do not apply in respect of the sounding of a reversing alarm when the vehicle to which it is fitted is about to move backwards and its engine is running. (3) No person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded, on a road any reversing alarm fitted to a vehicle— (a)unless the vehicle is a goods vehicle which has a maximum gross weight not less than 2000 kg, a bus, engineering plant, or a works truck; or (b)if the sound of the alarm is likely to be confused with a sound emitted in the operation of a pedestrian crossing established, or having effect as if established, under Part III of the 1984 Act. (4) Subject to the provisions of the following paragraphs, no person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded a gong, bell, siren or two-tone horn, fitted to or otherwise carried on a vehicle (whether it is stationary or not). (5) Nothing in paragraph (1) or (4) shall prevent the sounding of— (a)an instrument or apparatus fitted to, or otherwise carried on, a vehicle at a time when the vehicle is being used for one of the purposes specified in regulation 37(5) and it is necessary or desirable to do so either to indicate to other road users the urgency of the purposes for which the vehicle is being used, or to warn other road users of the presence of the vehicle on the road; or (b)a horn (not being a two-tone horn), bell, gong or siren— (i) to raise alarm as to the theft or attempted theft of the vehicle or its contents; or (ii) in the case of a bus, to summon help for the driver, the conductor or an inspector. (6) Subject to the provisions of section 62 of the Control of Pollution Act 1974 and notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (1) and (4) above, a person may, between 12.00 hours and 19.00 hours, sound or cause or permit to be sounded an instrument or apparatus, other than a two-tone horn, fitted to or otherwise carried on a vehicle, being an instrument or apparatus designed to emit a sound for the purpose of informing members of the public that the vehicle is conveying goods for sale, if, when the apparatus or instrument is sounded, it is sounded only for that purpose. (7) For the purposes of this regulation the expressions which are referred to in regulation 37(10) have the meanings there given to them and the expression “restricted road” in paragraph (1) means a road which is a restricted road for the purpose of section 81 of the 1984 Act.

Nah, I'll just drive it. I don't like my neighbours anyway 😉

Alternative speech bubble "For heaven's sake Harold, that's the Nestles, not the Netflix"

As I see it, the UK legislation on using a buzzer / beeper at night in a built up area is clear. If Nissan have a get-out-of-jail-free-card to play, it won't be that the user doesn't really need to drive the car at night if he plans his life properly (and doesn't work night shifts). It might be that they argue that the sounder is not a horn, bell, gong or siren. It might be that they argue that it is a safety feature which is there to warn pedestrians day or night. It might just be that the product is type approved to EU legislation and that's that. The bottom line is that they have messed up, combining the reversing sounder and the AVAS into one module. The EU legislation has forced them (and other manufacturers when they catch up) to provide a safety audible tone which cannot be switched off. This is supported by UK legislation. Unfortunately, the non-mandatory reversing sound which needs to be disabled at night within the UK cannot be switched off / reduced in volume on the Nissan as it is part of the mandatory system. I doubt very much whether I'll get anywhere but I think it's a cause worth fighting. If it makes them consider it for future models then it will have been worth it.

PS it does have an option to set a speed limit.

It's a Nissan Leaf, not a Nissan Cinderella. It doesn't need to be home before the clock strikes twelve. My car is capable of exceeding the speed limit, but it is my choice whether I do this or not. Similarly it is my choice whether I drive the car after midnight. The car has lights fitted, presumably to allow me to drive at night. Problem is that I can't legally reverse it off the drive to do so.

I can't fault Nissan Customer Services: ************************************************************************************************* Dear Mr Manuel, Thank you for your response. We are sorry for the inconvenience that this may have caused. I would like to inform you that it may not possible to retrospectively fit a switch as these kinds of changes are supposed to be done at the point of manufacturing According to our information our previous answer is correct concerning the regulation of the vehicle . However, for more information I am going to escalate this question to our experts. I will get back to you once I heard back from them. Thank you for patience. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us using the details below. Kind regards ************************************************************************************************* and my reply to fill the hole I found in the UK legislation: ************************************************************************************************* Thank you for escalating my concerns to your experts. Could you please ensure that they are aware of the source of UK legislation which applies specifically to the reversing sounder at night rather than the more general use of the "Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System" (AVAS), which I have no problem with. It is this UK legislation which I believe is making the reversing of my Nissan Leaf in a built-up area illegal between the hours of 23:30 and 07:00. The UK legislation is to be found in the UK government Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/99/made The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 - Legislation.gov.uk Legislation is available in different versions: Latest Available (revised):The latest available updated version of the legislation incorporating changes made by subsequent legislation and applied by our editorial team.Changes we have not yet applied to the text, can be found in the ‘Changes to Legislation’ area. www.legislation.gov.uk The specific wording reads: use of audible warning instruments 99.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs, no person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded, any horn, gong, bell or siren fitted to or carried on a vehicle which is— (a)stationary on a road, at any time, other than at times of danger due to another moving vehicle on or near the road; or (b)in motion on a restricted road, between 23.30 hours and 07.00 hours in the following morning. *************************************************************************************************

Charger will be an Ohme Home Pro 2. Not yet fully solar integrated (they are apparently still working on this feature) but shouldn't be an issue as I think I will be able to charge the car from batteries / inverter and all excess solar used to recharge the batteries. My electricity usage is actually significantly higher than the solar panels will deliver, so I am thinking that I will just end up charging the car from the grid at the 7.5 /kWh rate at the same time that I am topping up the batteries. GivEnergy charger sounds like a bargain (once it is available).

That's the annoying thing. Nissan appear to have taken it upon themselves to add the really loud reversing "noise" with no way of turning it off when other companies haven't. As I say, other than that, it's a nice car. On a more positive note, here's a photo of my smart meter monitor. Note the peak in kWh representing charging the car between 00:30 and 04:30 (00:40 to 04:20 actually - just in case). Here's the same usage represented as £s. The peak has completely gone due to the 7.5p per unit 4 hours Octopus Go rate. Very satisfying 🙂. It will get even more satisfying after my fast charger gets installed in 2 weeks time and then my solar / battery system later in the year (when products become available).

I think I know what Nissan's reply will be. Drat. Hole spotted in UK gov legislation.

No - just have a good old chuckle like the work men did..... Anyway, I have an update. Ten out of 10 for Nissan Customer Services in getting back to me so quickly with the following reply: *********************************************************************************************************************** Dear Mr Manuel, Thank you for contacting Nissan Customer Services about your Nissan Leaf REG-xxxxxxx VIN- xxxxxxxxxxxx and its specifications. We here at Nissan pride ourselves on the durability and technical excellence of our vehicles. We understand that you have contacted us due to reversing sound of your vehicle. We would like to inform you that It is not possible to disable this feature, as per regulation ECE-138. It is important to us to provide innovation that excites us, and as such we are constantly finding new ways to change and improve our product line-up. Due to our focus on improving and modifying our models, variations of each model may have different components, software and hardware. Sometimes, modifications are made when creating our newer models, other features may need to be removed to accommodate them or to make the vehicle affordable for our customers. We do apologise that your Nissan leaf does not have the same components as the Nissan vehicles you had seen previously. We do appreciate the fact you have taken the time to let us know your feedback on this feature, and we will ensure that this feedback is recorded in our systems for internal review. If you have any further enquiries, please do not hesitate to contact us using the details provided below. Kind regards *********************************************************************************************************************** and my reply back to them: *********************************************************************************************************************** Thank you for your reply on this matter. I understand that ECE-138 (clause 6.2.6) requires that the "pause function" is not permitted and would explain why the switch has been removed for countries where this standard still applies. https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/2017/R138r1e.pdf The vehicle in question was however, supplied within the UK and should therefore be compliant with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2017/1576. This supersedes (and in fact refers to) ECE-138. The vehicle should therefore be fitted with a switch to allow the sounder to be temporarily disabled. As stated within my original query, this is to allow for legal use of the vehicle within the hours of 23:30 and 07:00 and at noise sensitive locations. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2017/1576/annex/paragraph/1 Could I therefore repeat my request that my car to be retrospectively fitted with a switch to make it legal for me to drive at night? Regards, Gary Manuel ***********************************************************************************************************************

Not asking for silence. The subtle sound it makes going forwards would be fine, but the reverse sound is MUCH louder. I took my wife to the dentist yesterday and had to reverse out of the car park. A group of workmen stopped what they were doing INSIDE the dentist and came outside to see what all the commotion was about. It's embarrassing! This is the old style Leaf, but the sound is similar. Yuk.

Yes, I've seen it. Options are: 1. Disconnect the speaker but that also disconnects the simulated engine noise when moving slowly forwards. Also gives a dashboard warning. 2. Use an OBD2 plug / LeafSpy Pro Android software to change it, but Nissan have disabled this for latest models (grrr). 3. Put a sock in the speaker or tape it up to reduce the output level. 4. Wire a switch between pin 5 on the sound module and ground (this is where the missing dashboard switch should be wired). I shouldn't need to and won't be doing any of these.

I wish it was that simple.

I've just sent the following question to Nissan UK Customer Services. Let's see what they have to say about it. I resisted the temptation to send it as a complaint, but that option is always open as a next step. ***************************************************************************************************************************** I recently picked up my 2022 Nissan Leaf from Evans Halshaw in Doncaster. I am generally pleased with it but I have one major concern. The car has a very loud annoying sounder which comes on when reversing. There does not appear to be any way of silencing this sounder. This is contrary to the requirements of UK legislation, which requires cars with such devices to be fitted with a switch to allow the driver to silence the sounder when judged necessary. Such times would include when reversing in sensitive areas such as in hospital / hospice grounds or during the hours from 11:30 pm to 07:00 am in built up areas when it would in fact be illegal! The following link is an extract from the UK government website which shows the requirements for Electric Vehicles. The requirement for the switch is shown in Section II clause 2(b). https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2017/1576/annex/paragraph/1 The following link is from the UK government Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986. Section 99(1)(b) clearly shows that a sounder must not sound within the hours 23:30 and 07:00 on a restricted road. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/99/made I note that older UK models of the Nissan Leaf had a switch on the dashboard to silence the alarm, but it is missing from my vehicle. Would it be possible for my car to be retrospectively fitted with a switch to make it legal for me to drive at night, or for you to explain to me why mine is not fitted with a switch? *****************************************************************************************************************************

I agree, but the Nissan Leaf sound is comical and embarrassing. I haven't used it at night yet, but I assume it still beeps. Surely illegal between 11:30 pm and 7:00 am in built up areas! Even railway crossings need to be quietened / silenced at those times in order to pass the DforT inspection, so a beeping car should not be allowed either.

I've just read the link. It would appear that Nissan are non compliant as they do not allow the sound to be temporarily disabled - at least not on the latest models. I might take this up with Nissan.

Dishwasher has a timer on it. I've just made an Arduino driven board to simulate pushing the start button on my washing machine at a set time. Both being used most nights. I'll soon have 2 X 9.5kWh batteries which will be topped up overnight to supplement the solar charging. Hoping not to have to use much full price electric eventually. Regarding noise, I don't mind the simulated engine noise to alert (sight impaired / jay-walking) pedestrians. It's the reverse beeping that I find unbearable. Other manufacturers don't have it and it used to be switchable on older Leafs. Nissan have even stopped it being controllable via the OBD2 service plug for the latest couple of years.

Well I managed to get myself onto Octopus Go tariff. Only snag is that I convinced myself that it was worth while leasing a Nissan Leaf to facilitate it - picked it up on Wednesday. Any one know how to stop it making that stupid embarrassing beep beep beep beep beep beep .... reversing sound? 🤬 Other than that, it seems like a great car, and at 2p per mile (night time charging at 7.5p/KWh), it's about 10% of the cost of fuelling a similar sized petrol car.

I have 6x 5000 60C Turnigy Heavy Duty packs I bought in 2019. Never used. Still at Storage Voltage so should be as good as new. I decided to sell all my large electric models just after I bought these. Screen dump from my purchase history attached. Yours for £240 for the lot (That's £40 each). Located in Doncaster. Collection only due to postal restrictions. Includes a free cuppa and a chat.