Mam'selle.......

[Tim Hooper]

Posted by Danny Fenton on 14/11/2011 23:26:32:

Thought I had better get cracking before Tim has a go at me....

And about time too!

 

This all looks very professional, Mr F! The new lens thingy appears to be working a treat, doesn't it?

 

Love the choice of model, and very impressed with the angle maker too.

 

Following with bated keyboard.

 

tim

[Danny Fenton]

Mr H Just the chap I need to speak to. You have doing things with small models, how the heck do I get a Rx pack, Rx, two servos in this teeny thing

AND how do I operate the waggly bits at the back?

Made the crutch bit

 

Then in bestest Dave Platt fashion stuck bits to it, and to my hands/fingers.....

 

Was going great guns with the stringers when I suddenly thought.... Oh blimey better put something inside before all my access is gone

 

So any ideas? on anything, ie smallest Rx pack available, pushrods etc etc

 

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 15/11/2011 17:33:40

[Big Bandit]

Looking great Danny, and a very nice looking kit.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Tim Hooper]

Danny,

 

I'd suggest using 9 gramme TowerPro servos from Giant Cod, using a closed loop for the rudder and maybe a micro-snake for the elevator.

 

tim

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Tim, I am pretty sure I have some of those 9g, maybe even the 6g ones, already, out of an indoor shockie that has long since been retired. I have just found an eneloop 4.8v Rx pack which uses AAA cells, weighs around 60g though

I was wondering about closed loop for rudder and elevator?? But will see if I can find a micro snake

Cheers

Danny

[Richard Harris]

Danny,

I have used fishing line on closed loop systems before on small models, exit tubes using that bit of pipe that is always taped to a WD40 can.

 

 

Rich

[Danny Fenton]

That sounds great Richard, and might be the easiest as access would be easier for closed loop. If this were electric it would be easier as I would use a 12g bec off the flight pack. But it looks like the lightest route is a 55g 4 x AAA pack.

 

Should have chosen a larger model me thinks

[Danny Fenton]

Yaaay found a couple of 4g indoor servos. Now with electric I would have no worries about using them, should I be more concerned as this has an oily lump at the front?

 

Cheers

Danny

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

I think your AAA cells will be fine Danny.....but personally I would go for 9g servos rather than 4g.......an extra 10g won't make any difference to how the model flys & a bit more meat in the servo will only be a good thing. Sorry to keep boring on about the Mini Tyro but I used a 650mAh AAA pack & two 9g servos in that one.....

 

Lots of wee Rx packs here however if your weight paranoia keeps you awake at night...

 

For control I use some white plastic tube with 1mm piano wire run through it.....an economy "micro-snake"..... Wrap a small piece of masking tape around the plastic & then epoxy or cyano it to a longeron at intervals along the fuselage. My LMS (Blackburn Models) has a rack with all sorts of plastic sections in it....the tube I use is about 2.5mm diameter with a 1.5mm id. I can't find it on their website but most shops seem to have a similar selection.....gladly get some from Blackburn if you're struggling....

 

Just as an off the wall suggestion can you check the CoG yet.....with that monster PAW up front might you find that you can put the servos at the back like Mr Tim did with his Pix "E".......just a thought......

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Steve, thanks for the link, thats a super site, duly bookmarked. I have ordered one of those tiny Rx packs That will calm my OCD over the weight. This model is way smaller than I am comfortable with hence my uncertainty. No chance of looking at c of g yet to much still left to build. What weight was your mini tyro in the end?

 

Cheers

Danny

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Current Mini Tyro is about 15oz all up....thats with a 1cc Frog diesel 2 x 9g servos a 650mAh AAA Rx pack & a GWS 8 channel Rx....I thought I might need the extra channels for flaps, bomb drop, retractable undercarriage & rotating gun turrets.........no, not really!!!

 

No idea what the original one I built weighed.....but that had a 500mAh NiCd battery & two fullsize servos shoehorned into it (probably 40g EACH!!) & it still flew just fine.....

 

I think you'll be surprised just just how little the actual airframe weighs......."..a few holes lightly trimmed with balsa...." as someone once said. This leaves lots of margin for servos, engines, batteries & the like.....it will be fine.....

 

I should probably tell you that the dodgy pack that cost Lee Smalley his Zlin in the November issue came from this supplier....an unsupported wire which became detatched apparently..... Personally I've not had any problems with batteries I have bought from them but you might like to check it when you get it.......I'd hate the Mam'selle to go Free Flight before you were ready...

[Danny Fenton]

Now you tell me!

You are on a mission to single handedly remove me of all my modelling fund. Only kidding. Perhaps you are right I am worrying unduly But if it comes out at more than a pound I am blaming you

I was toying with fitting flaps and retracts too, but perhaps rivet detail will have to surfice......

All building has to halt now (not that I was doing any) as RCM&E has landed on the mat

Toodle pip

 

[Danny Fenton]

Had a small package from Chris (Big Bandit) twas a box full of little diesel fuel tanks, thanks Chris that is brilliant, and also a big thanks for the P.A.W instructions, I hadn't seen those so it will be very useful. Being a leccy flier I assumed you just poured fuel in the tank connected the pipe and it ran??? seems you have to do some "flicking" Only kidding should be a nice change, if a bit messy

Thanks again Chris, isn't the forum great

[Big Bandit]

Your welcome Danny,

 

I read earlier that you were pondering how you would get the leci bits in, my solution on the Quiver was to mount them on a tray and then mount that on 4 servo mounting grommets to prevent vibration affecting the radio. And access is still good through the wing seating. It's not much bigger than the Mam'selle but there's loads of room.

 

Cheers,

Chris.

[Engine Doctor]

Welcome to the "Oily hand Society" The oil really does keep your hand soft but be careful you dont get addicted to the smell . My mamselle built about severn or eight years ago has a mills 75 fitted and 2channel radio . Flew really well .I have given it to a friend now as he doesn't build small stuff. loads of fun per £ ,much more than leccy provided you dont mind the oily stuff . What are you covering it with ?

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Chris and ED thanks for the info, I seem to do a lot of building in my head, before getting to the bench in the evening. Sometimes thats not a good idea and it is better to just crack on

I will copy that tray idea Chris as it will make removal of the radio gear easier for the Nats, though I may just take the battery and Rx out and leave the servos at the trimmed setting

ED covering? I thought I would leave it to the P.A.W. to do the covering in oil that is.

I will probably do it in tissue and dope, after all if we are going down memory lane we may as well make a day of it

 

Cheers

Danny

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Remember to fuel proof everything.......the oil gets everywhere. Worth noting that Solarfilm isn't 100% diesel proof.....

 

Litespan might be good....a kind of heatshrinkable tissue that is already fuel proof....

[Danny Fenton]

Oh nuts, fuel proofing my weight OCD is kicking in again

Ok Steve.... what do I need and I will get the wallet out again......

 

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Hi Danny.....well to get the full "Vintage Experience" you would need to seek out a tin of ye olde Keil Kraft Fuele Proofer.....this stuff was about the consistency of treacle. It was best applied with a trowel, turned your model a lovely shade of yellow-y brown & added a few ounces extra weight.......

 

Luckily things have improved......

 

For the MT I used ordinary Solarfilm because I had some in the drawer. I didn't know it wasn't fully diesel proof though & it starts to go a bit wrinkly after a while. Solarfilm wouldn't look right on a Mam'selle anyway. Obviously tissue & dope would be good but would certainly need fuel proofing afterwards.....I like the two part proofers such as aerokote see here.

 

I do like Litespan though....this is a modern alternative to tissue & is already fuel resistant so you could iron it on & leave it at that & enjoy lovely see through covering revealing all your mistakes.....er.... I mean all your wonderful building work.....

 

Two points to note however....it doesn't have any adhesive so you need to paint some Balsaloc onto the airframe where you want it to stick first. Also it doesn't shrink a huge amount so you need to get it reasonably tight when you apply it....

 

The main area to really fuel proof well is the engine bay....diesels don't really chuck out very much more oil than a glow motor but because we usually run them with an open exhaust the oil gets everywhere. A typical glow silencer will channel most of the oil out & away from the model....a diesel just sprays the lot back over the fuselage (worth remembering when you put the model in the car on the way home.....wrap the engine up in a rag first to absorb the drips.....if SWMBO sitts in a patch of diesel oil in her new cream skirt.............I suspect we would hear the tongue lashing from here......

 

And then it would take lots of & & before there was any chance of & as we all know these funds are far better spent on modelling......so be careful....

 

Personally I would paint in & around the engine bay with Clearcoat before covering as this helps the film to stick & then add another coat of clearcoat over the joints & edges just to seal them.....

 

You might notice a bias towards Solarfilm products....it is true because I find them to work well & they are made here in sunny Chorley not 5 whiles from where I sit right now. Up here in Lancasheer (where the men are men & the sheep are nervous) we like to support home industries......other similar products are available though...Oracover do a range very similar to the stuff produced by Solarfilm.....

 

Hope this helps...

[Martyn K]

Posted by Steve Hargreaves on 17/11/2011 09:47:28:

Up here in Lancasheer (where the men are men & the sheep are nervous)

 

 

Unlike Wales where Men and Men and sheep are affectionate...?

 

 

[Danny Fenton]

Thanks Steve, I have some Litespan in the cupboard so thats a thought, I also have some Aerokote funnily enough, lord knows why I have it.

 

A few questions if I may?

 

1. Do you have to Aerokote the whole model, wings and all, or just the fus around the nose?

 

2. You say to Clearcoat the fus front before covering as it helps the film to stick, do you mean you dont need balsaloc over the clearcoate before applying Litespan?

 

3. what paint can I use on the litespan that will be diesel proof straight from the can? I am thinking for the trim colors?

 

4. Martyn I am not going to mention sheep.....

 

Cheers

Danny

 

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Posted by Danny Fenton on 17/11/2011 10:31:37:

 

1. Do you have to Aerokote the whole model, wings and all, or just the fus around the nose?

Litespan is fuel resistant so no need for an extra fuel proofer.....you could use it as an extra precaution if you liked & in this case I would "splash it all over" as our 'Enry used to say & do the whole model.....

 

2. You say to Clearcoat the fus front before covering as it helps the film to stick, do you mean you dont need balsaloc over the clearcoate before applying Litespan?

Good point....clearcoat works really well with Solarfilm but these already have the adhesive backing...I was forgetting that Litespan doesn't....perhaps balsaloc the sticking area first & then clearcoat over the whole engine bay. I think balsaloc is supposed to be applied to plain wood so it might not be best practice to apply balsaloc over clearcoat....Maybe a call to the Solarfilm chaps might be an idea....

 

3. what paint can I use on the litespan that will be diesel proof straight from the can? I am thinking for the trim colors?

Solarlac is good stuff....again fuel resistant & the colours match the other solarfilm products.....In the dim recesses of my mind I seem to recall that Humbrol Enamels were resistant to diesel but not glow fuel....or was it the other way around....anyone confirm this??

 

4. Martyn I am not going to mention sheep.....

Why not......? The one on the left is quite attractive...

[Martyn K]

Posted by Steve Hargreaves on 17/11/2011 10:49:54:

Posted by Danny Fenton on 17/11/2011 10:31:37:

 

Good point....clearcoat works really well with Solarfilm but these already have the adhesive backing...I was forgetting that Litespan doesn't....perhaps balsaloc the sticking area first & then clearcoat over the whole engine bay. I think balsaloc is supposed to be applied to plain wood so it might not be best practice to apply balsaloc over clearcoat....Maybe a call to the Solarfilm chaps might be an idea....

I have used Balsaloc on top of Solarfilm to give it a bit of extra stickiness - usually as a repair/refurbishment after the film has lifted and the Solarfilm now has an almost impossible to remove film of oil. So far it has worked well. I would fuel-proof first then Balsaloc over the fuel-proofed area.

M

[Danny Fenton]

Thanks guys most educational

One last question, does a Litespan model look like a tissue and dope finish, you say it doesn't shrink as much?

 

Cheers

Danny

 

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Doesn't shrink as much as Solarfilm I was meaning......you can't rely on it to get that 1/2" wrinkle out....

 

Does it look like tissue......H'mmm....similar but slightly different I would say.....not much help that is it.....

 

Maybe iron a piece of your litespan onto a framework & see what you think......I think it looks fine & I doubt you will be beaten sensless by Vintage enthusiasts weilding rolled copies of the KeilKraft Handbook if you do use it.....