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Super 60 build, Big Bandit


Big Bandit
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Managed a bit more this afternoon. First Formers F3a and F4a need to be fitted. F3a needed some fetling in order to fit the bearers snugly, and old ruler with Carbide paper stuck with double sided tape works well.
 
 
Also cut a hole for the tank neck, markup from F3 and I prefer to fret this out then clean up the hole with 240 carbide paper. Also mark up the glue line ready for fitting. Do a dry run first to check for fit.
 
Also mark up F4a to sit over the tank.


Mark up the side cheeks ready for fitting to the engine bearers and F3.
 

Dry check before gluing up, this needed a bit more fetling around the engine bearers.
 

Warm the Epoxy so it's nice and runny.
 

Glue up F3a, F4a, and the side cheeks fit and clamp well, leave to dry.
 

While the front end dries fit the last cross members to the rear fuselage (not indicated on the design), these need to be set 3/32 low in order that the 3/32 infill can be set in later. As the infill has the fin glued to it only using a butt joint I'm not sure whether this is robust enough, so I've added the cross members to firm the whole thing up a bit.
 
 
And finally for today, the infill itself
 

And here's the fus so far, with more to come tomorrow.
 

Cheers,
 
Chris.
 
 

Edited By Big Bandit on 19/11/2011 21:12:37

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Hi All,
 
More done today as rain was forecast so no model flying to distract me, and guess what, it didn't. Any road up to start the hole for the tank neck needs clearing
 
 
So the old drill thingy based on a 480 motor in a plastic case, with a proper chuck fitted, a brilliant bit of kit for this sort of thing. The sanding disk is from my new £30 multi took kit and it exploded on the first cut.
 
 
Another new sanding drum same thing happened, and I only had two in that kit.

 
So out comes the £2.99 kit from Aldi.


Like a new un.
 

Job done, just goes to show it not always the most expensive bit of kit is the best.
 

The next job is to sort out the side cheeks, in the kit there is two 3/8 and two 3/16 cheeks. The 3/8 ones are already fitted. Rather than fit the 3/16 which needs an infill at the bottom I've cut two from 1/8 balsa to cover the whole depth of the nose.
 
 
Get them stuck on along with the 3/16 balsa sheet to the under side, the 1/8 ply Under cart mount and 1/8 sheet balsa to complete the underside sheeting in the nose area.

Eyeball along the fus to check that you've not built a banana, and that'll do for tonight.
 
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.


Edited By Big Bandit on 23/11/2011 01:53:54

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Hi All,
 
More progress today and now it's really coming along well.
 
First thing is to clean the nose area up and check that a couple of degrees side thrust is built in before fitting the nose block. It's difficult to see in this one, but you can just detect a gap at the far end of the square.
 
 
Glue the triangular stock to the bottom sheeting and side cheeks.

 
I've also glued a couple of 1/8 spruce rails between the formers to give more gluing area for the 1/32 ply cowling and braced the dash board.
 
 
Give the whole inside sheeting area of the front end a coat of sanding sealer and allow to dry.

Then a two pack fuel proofer whilst the top is open and access is available. The idea of the sanding sealer first is to seal the wood grain and avoid the fuel proofer just soaking into it.

 
Epoxy the nose block on after cutting out for the prop driver of the motor, I used a mockup motor mounting plate to sit the motor on at this stage.


Cut the 1/32 ply cowling.
 

Fit the tank, and cut out any area's as required to stop the carb including the throttle arm fowling the the nose block. And sand the whole front end to blend the nose block, side cheeks, and bottom block.

 
Fit the cowling, I use 15 min epoxy for this over the formers and thin cyano on the edges of the cowl and the 1/8 spruce rails.
 
then give the whole front end a coat of sanding sealer over the outside, and the inside of the nose block. The reason for the sanding sealer is that I'm using nylon covering doped on, so sealing the balsa at this stage and sanding back to a finish, saves too much dope and hence weight later on.
 
 
That's it for today, ready to fit the motor tomorrow along with the gussets to the rear end of the fus and the tailplane mounting plates. The gussets can also be scalloped to improve the visible appearance of the airframe under the covering. Any ideas or comments would be welcome.

 
Cheers,
 
Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 24/11/2011 00:28:39

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Looks good Chris,

Im attempting to build the super 60 at the moment. it will be
or should i say, could be my first ever build!!!

I've been having trouble with the wings, the dihedral angle does not seem to be as great as yours,
Would this really matter? Or would this increase the
clapping effect and consequent death of my super 69?

Cheers

Alan
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Hi Alan,
 
I haven't built the wings yet, but will stay with the designed dihedral (4 to 5 degrees I think). Are you building the 3 channel wing or has it got ailerons, the difference will be the amount of dihedral, the none aileron wing has more dihedral to assist with natural stability and also helps by banking the model when in a turn. The aileron wing looks almost flat, maybe a couple of degrees at most.
 
When I brought the kit I asked for the 3 channel version as it was the most original version available, although I'll be building a second wing with inset ailerons at a later date when the other two models I've elected to build are done.
 
I must admit I'm enjoying building this one more than any other model I've built for a long time and I want to stick with a period nylon and dope for the finish along with sewn hinges and a period engine, the sanding sealer I used yesterday have certainly cleared my sinuses.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.
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Hi Chris,
 
Have followed your build from the start and have found it most interesting and informative.
 
As a novice on my first build I am looking forward to any future posts on :
 
1. Fuelproofing - how far back into fuselage is the norm.
 
2. Servo mounting.
 
3. Throttle snake routing around fuel tank.
 
4.Snake runs - mounting horns and stitching hinges.
 
5. Tail wheel mount.
 
6. Nylon covering - stretching and painting.
 
7. Cockpit glazing.
 
8. Wings.
 
John
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BB Chris,
I have two or three Mercos and found that adding a few inches of silicone tube to the exhaust did a lot to quieten them as well as directing the exhaust gunge away from the model.
With one silencer which repeatedly shed the screws holding the two halves together, I managed to drill right through and used bolts and lock nuts. A smear of blue Hermetite on the mating faces was also a help - problem solved.
Malcolm
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Hi John, and welcome to the forum,
 
So far I've sanding sealer-ed all of the internal faces of the sheeting to the nose, then fuel proofed all the way to the next internal bay beyond F4. It's best to do this before fitting the cowling and tank while access is relatively easy. At the end of the day fuel proofing all of the internal faces is impossible, but do as much as you can. In the early days I had models literally fall apart after a few months through residue ingress from both glow and diesel fuel. This was my own fault through lack of adequate fuel proofing.
 
As for servo mounting my usual method is to mount all servo's RX and batteries on a ply plate taking care to get the straightest control linkage possible especially the throttle through a plastic tube. Push / pull cable (closed loop) for the rudder is best for me, with a hard balsa and bike spokes push rod for the elevator. On more modern models I use snakes but try to avoid them on vintage jobs.
 
Stitching hinges isn't difficult just fiddly and difficult to explain. I've got the tailplane well on it's way today along with the fin, and the nylon coverings ordered so when it arrives I'll do a full explanation with photo's of the stitching and nylon covering.
 
Cockpit glazing is usually done after covering to save damaging the glazing material, then trim up to keep things tidy.
 
The tail wheel will most likely be a commercial unit with a torque rod to the steerable tail wheel from the rudder, or I might try a dual closed loop to rudder and tail wheel with a sprung linkage to the tail wheel to provide some shock absorber action in order to save stripping servo gears.
 
Hope you enjoy the build as much as I have.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.
 
The tail wheel will most likely be a commercial unit with a torque rod to the steerable tail wheel from the rudder, or I might try a dual closed loop to rudder and tail wheel with a sprung linkage to the tail wheel to provide some shock absorber action in order to save stripping servo gears.

Edited By Big Bandit on 24/11/2011 21:55:33

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Hi Malcolm,
 
Yep I remember how noisy the Merco silencers can be, next to useless for today's environmentally friendly situations.
 
I did have an idea to fit a proper internal baffle and leave a portion of tube sticking out from the outlet so as you suggest I can fit some silicon tube to keep the gunge off the model. Come to think of it I could use silicon tube to isolate the internal baffle from the rest of the so called silencer.
 
One motors stripped now for cleaning tomorrow and the inside of the silencers covered with carbonized sticky clag like parts of the crankcase. So it'll be a trip to B&Q for some alloy tube and see what I can cobble up.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 24/11/2011 22:13:10

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Hi All,
 
Well, I've had a couple of slack days, but still made a little progress. All of the gussets are now fitted to the bottom of the fuselage, and the fully symmetrical tailplane as the original is coming along nicely.
 
First lay a 3/16 x 1/8 sub spar 1/3rd back from the leading edge of the tailplane. Then place a 1/8 x 1/8 strip of spruce from the LE to the TE and holding a sheet of 3/32 balsa behind it mark out the ribletts. Do this for all of the ribs one one side of the tailplane. Cut out 4 of each. Glue each riblett to one side of the tailplane and allow to dry. When dry cut away to allow the sub spar to fit and glue into situ, again leave to dry. You should end up with something similar to this.
 
 
If like me you have the skills and desire to clean vintage motors, prepare the job, Suitable container, old tooth brush, Fairy power spray and the proper tools for the job. Old pliers, dodgy screw drivers only mess up the screw heads and nuts. Strip the motor taking care to follow the 1/2 a turn at a time in sequence rule until the bolts are loose enough to remove by fingers alone. Whilst doing this make a mental or written note of the orientation of each part with reference to each mating part.
 
 
This one is in a particularly grotty state.
 
 
like the oily, carbonized gunge on this one. And don't forget to remove the plug from the head.

It should end up looking like this one, in true Blue Peter style, one I did earlier.
 
 
Put the motor to one side and build the fin, I must admit that the version on the plan doesn't look like the KK version I remember so I've added the appropriate changes, and also the obligatory gussets in place of the butt joints I hate.

By now the mods to the first side of the tailplane should be dry, so turn it over and glue the ribletts to the second side.
 
 
While they dry, I've chosen to mod the fin and extend the LE and TE to allow pegging, when fitting it to the fuselage, again I hate but joints.

When the ribletts are dry, let in the sub spar to the second side of the tailplane, and now it resembles the tailplane of the Super 60 as I remember it .

So what we have so far, a built and sanded fus with all gussets fitted ready for scalloping, a symmetrical tailplane ready for final sanding and scalloping the gussets, a built fin read for final sanding and scalloping the gussets, and a container of gunge from a grotty looking motor that now looks very clean and ready for a rebuild, and fit to the mounting plate and in turn the fuselage.
 
 
More to come tomorrow and hopefully tie all of the odds and ends up ready to build the wings and start the Sharkface now the small building board is free.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.
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Hi All,
 
A bit more done today, firstly the mods to the Merco silencer. This had already been trimmed, and for what reason I have no idea. Anyway The first job was to fabricate an internal baffle, so a trip to B&Q, and I had 3, 1 Metre lengths of alloy tube, 10 mm seemed a good fit. So block one end, by cutting to length with my old pipe cutters which leaves an internal lip so a 4mm nut fed up the tube from the clean cut end, with a 4mm bolt and washer fed from the lipped end and locked in place with high temp thread lock.
 
Then drill two lengths of 2mm holes to match the length of the exhaust outlet of the motor. Grind out the existing baffle in the silencer to allow the new baffle a snug fit. Slide on some silicone tube offcuts to centralise and position the baffle, then lock into place with high temp epoxy. Ensuring the two rows of holes are opposite to the motor exhaust.
 
 
Fit the other half of the silencer, and hope it works, all adds to the experience.
 

Back to the model, the fin sanded and sanding sealer-ed, fitted into holes in the fuselage top, inserts using, the pegs previously fitted to the fin.
 
Also the finished modified (symmetrical) tailplane sanded to final shape and again sanding sealer-ed and pinned into position. Nothing yet glued until after covering.
 

So the build so far. All lined up and true.
 

All of the gussets fitted, ready for scalloping.
 

And about ready to start covering, when the nylon arrives.
 

A few more bit's tomorrow, before a busy few days at work and a weekend in Leeds visiting the daughter, and of course the obligatory visit to Sherwoods in Crossgates (Leeds model shop) , stock up on goodies.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 26/11/2011 20:49:10

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Hi again,
 
Spent some time in the shed today, and made some more progress. I must try out the new camera that I had for my birthday from the daughter, the one I'm using is and old Nikon color pix 4600 and is so old that It's been flogged around Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia about 5 years ago. I had a new Panasonic Lumix LX5 and still haven't charged the batteries.
 
Anyway. First off is to epoxy the tailplane mounting plates(6mm ply) to the rear end of the fus.
 
 
Drill two 2mm holes in the mounting plates fitted to the tailplane during the build of the same. And dry mount the tailplane into situ on the fus.
 
 
Stick a modelling pin towards the underside sheeting at the front of the model, and using a paper tape that is given away free from a well known Scandinavian furniture supplier, hooked over the pin measure the distance to the extreme edge of the tailplane


Do the same for the other side of the tailplane.
 

And if it measured the same, it's square otherwise adjust to suit. When happy drill though the tailplane mounting plates into the mounting plates fitted earlier to the fus.
 
 
Open up the holes in the fus mounting plate with a 4mm hole
 
 
I use an M4 bolt with a tapered lead in to tap a thread in the 4mm hole, works for me anyway.
 
 
Then run the bolt in and out a few times to clear the tread, remove the bolt and run the nylon mounting bolts in the tapped holes. Run those in and out a few times to free up the fit.

 
Open up the already formed holes in the tailplane to 5mm, and fit into place using the nylon bolts. Check again for square.
 

Both sides.
 

Jobs a goodun. I use a set of drills I brought at the Nats, £4.50 for a set of 12, 1.5 to 6mm with hex shanks to fit !
 

The small Lion screw driver fro Aldi at £4.99, great for the small modelling jobs we do, rather than get out the bigger cordless things.
 

The next job is to build up the boxing that forms the underside tailplane fairing, not forgetting to add sun ribs either side if building the symmetrical tailplane as I have. After-all we have to have something to attach the covering to. Also unbolt the tailplane first .


Cheers,
 
Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 27/11/2011 19:49:18

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And the last bit for today, A bit of kit I brought at the local car boot some time ago, Mini craft drill, complete with transformer £4.50 ! Bargain . Fitted with a 10mm sanding drum, a suitable length of dowel with sandpaper stuck on works well but I'm just lazy.
 
 
So it's time to scallop the gussets.        Before.
 

After.
 
The general idea is to remove material whilst leaving enough material to keep a strong enough joint and improving the appearance through the covering.
 
 
Check the tailplane again for square.
 

Both sides.
 
 
Tailplane and fin ready for covering.


Just the gussets in the fuselage to scallop, then it's ready for covering, fitting the radio and control surfaces.
 

Any comments good or bad, please feel free, and ideas are welcome after-all we all have different ways of doing things and these are just mine. Hope you have enjoyed the build so far, I know I have.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 27/11/2011 20:13:07

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Hi Martyn,
 
As the mini craft drill has a controllable speed transformer it's pretty good at that job, I do the same with all of my built up fuselages. Your Astro Hog looks very good, can't wait to start mine and an old mate came around on Friday and we ordered one for him while he was here.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.
 
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Chris,
I will be very interested to see how your silencer modification works out. My Merco 61 has a "dustbin" silencer and this is much better than the original. Years ago I also made one from scrap aluminium tube for a friend who had the same engine but managed to lose his "dustbin" while in flight. I did a write up of this in, I think, Radio Modeller.
 
Like you I have a Minicraft drill with variable speed transformer/controller. Unliike you, I paid the full price for it. This is my favourite mini drill as it has a proper 1/4" capacity keyed chuck. This has allowed me to use even bigger sanding drums up to 2" diameter from either Aldi or Lidl, but these have to be used lightly to avoid stalling the drill motor.
Malcolm
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Hi Malcolm,
 
It was a great find, I also have some of the newer type mini drill kits with collet's which I'm not keen on, but at a pinch they work for what we use them for. My main mini also has a proper chuck and is based on a speed 480 size motor, I've had it so long I can't remember who made it and have changed the motor a few times, then re-wrapped the case in heat shrink. Still going strong, but a bit too much for scalloping balsa gussets. I suppose I could always build a speed controller for it, and have a few PCB's and components, wouldn't take long.
 
I hope to get the Merco rebuilt before the weekend and if the LMS has some usable fuel in, I'll run it up in the garage and check the noise levels compared to the standard silencer. As long as it's within the ball park, I can do a proper check at the field when the Super 60's finished.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.
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