Super 60 build, Big Bandit

[Paul Marsh]

I've got a couple of old diesels, and never started one before, managed to get them going!

I did build the Super 60, so sort of counts, unless I re-kit it and re-build it. Also got a Sharkface, built a few years ago, but once again, it's been built...

[Big Bandit]

Nice one Paul,

 

I just love running old diesels up in the garage, I recon out of my collection about 15 are diesels. For the Matador build I'm thinking of an old ED Bee if it comes out light enough, which it should do, or the PAW 149 which I was reluctant to use because I didn't have a silencer for it until Sunday when I picked up one for 50p at the local swap meet, sorted.

 

I remember flying a Matador free flight with a Bee on the front, and it had loads of power so it might be a goer have to wait and see. I can run both of them up anyway and compare the two. I think that for the vintage look they don't want to be over powered, but the motor wants to be "barking" for that authentic sound .

 

One of my older Bees fly's the 1937 Wigdor Wasp free flight without a problem and that's heavier than I expect the Matador to turn out.

 

You may be able to find something to build for one of your diesels and do a blog, after all we can always learn something from each other and that's what it's about. As long as it's some thing that was originally from about 1965 ish it'll work for the mass build.

 

I must get some finger out with the blog as family commitments and work has taken up my time for the last few days, but this weekend looks good to make some progress.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

Hi All,

 

Well, I'm back on the case today and have made some progress. First of all I wanted to have a steerable tail-wheel so a piece of 1/8 birch ply was let into the underside of the fuselage just in front of the tailplane. This was then drilled to accept a brass nose bush from an old rubber model.

 

 

This was drilled out to give an interference fit for 16 SWG piano wire.

 

 

And a tail wheel fashioned to fit with the bush screwed into the hole.

 

Ready for a bit more when I've had a coffee.

 

Chris.

[Richard Harris]

Looking good Chris

 

Interested to see how the tail wheel will hook up?

 

I really do like the way you have done your gussets, I never seen that done before, kind of finishes things off.

 

When you doped the tailplane did you clamp it down flat whilst it dries off?

 

 

Rich

[Big Bandit]

That's better I need a few caffeine fixes during a day. The next job is to cover the under side of the fuselage and I've already promised to go through the method, which I've found surprisingly simple now I'm not rushing to get it done.

First off give the airframe two coats of sanding sealer allowing a decent bit of drying time between each coat, the-n de-nib with 240 grit paper. I'd already done this some time ago so it was just the de-nib. I'd also scalloped all of the fuselage gussets for a warm up earlier.

 

Then apply a coat of full strength shrinking dope to the sheeted area's and the outer frame.

Ensure that there is a bottle of clean cellulose thinners available

 

 

And a decent soft paintbrush.

 

 

Lay the nylon over the doped area, and ideally this should still be "tacky". Brush the thinners through the nylon which will soften the dope, and pull the nylon down using the over lap. Don't try to do too much at once, I found working along the fuselage about a panel at a time worked.

 

Any odd wrinkles can be smoothed out with a piece of clean kitchen towel before the dope "goes off" again.

The idea is to get the nylon smooth and even and relatively tight, don't worry if it's not drum tight as this will be taken up later by the first coat of shrinking dope. Hold down while the dope goes off for each section. And the odd pin can be used to help keep things in alignment.

 

 

And you should end up with a covering that is stuck tight around the edges, if any small wrinkles creep in just wet the local area again with thinners and pull till the dope softens and the covering tightens, I had to do this a couple of times until I had it how I wanted it.

 

Another coffee time, back in a bit.

 

Chris.

 

Edited By Big Bandit on 15/12/2011 16:18:11

[Big Bandit]

Back again, Give the nylon a brushed coat of thinned shrinking dope, I used 50 / 50 dope thinners. It's important to allow time for the dope holding the edges to dry properly before doing this as applying the shrinking dope too soon can soften the dope around the outer edges and allow the nylon to be pulled away from the airframe.

 

Allow this coat to go off and apply a second coat. When applying dope to nylon it has a habit of pooling on the under side of the material which looks unsightly. To avoid this happening turn the model over so any pooling will be on the outside.

 

Pooling on the inside.

 

When the dopes gone off a bit the airframe can be turned over again and any unsightly dope puddles can be removed with some kitchen towel soaked in thinners.

 

When the second shrinking dope coat is dry the over lap can be removed, I find a single edge razor blade is just right for doing this.

And you should end up with a covering that's drum tight and smooth, when the rest of the fuselage is covered further coats of thinned NON shrinking dope can be used to fill the remainder of open weave in the nylon and to achieve an overall consistent coloring before applying any trim.

 

 

The last job for me is to fit the tail-wheel and bell-crank for steering

 

The bell-crank fitted to a further nose bush and soldered to the tail-wheel shaft, this will be driven by a closed loop cable from the rudder servo with two springs in line to absorb any shocks and hopefully avoid stripping servo gears.

Tailplane bolted on.

 

And that's me for today, off out for dinner tomorrow with the guy's from work so I may not get much done, but if I can I'll hinge the elevator and rudder so I can get the linkages sorted out before covering the rest of the fuselage.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

 

Edited By Big Bandit on 15/12/2011 16:53:15

[ian ludwell]

Hello all,

Nice to see the "Big Bandit" build is coming along very nice.

A beautifull finish to everything,as i tell my beloved preparation is the key,not that she believes me,just gives me that knowing look.

As i mentioned previously the Thunder Tiger pro has been used on the old KK and the Yellow model,the Yellow one now has the Thunder motor and the old KK has an Enya 40,purchased this 2nd hand earlier this year,have bench tested it but not flown with it,so will have to see if all goes well.

Regarding the Dihedral,there is none on the Yellow model,flat wing quite wide ailerons,

take off into or slight cross wind ok,downwind leg ok and turning into wind not too much booming up.

Alas the old KK with the wing centre section flat to the bench has approx 5" at each wing tip measured where the leadind edge and tip start to curve,it's this that keeps it stable.

On take off you need to be straight into wind,any deviation from this pushes against the wing and off she goes panic ensues trying to steer this lame duck around.

Once she is up it's a dream to fly,so relaxed,if there is a slight breeze turning into wind she just want to rise up,you could soon lose sight of her.

Landing so easy. cheers...ian

[Big Bandit]

Hi Ian,

 

I'm not using ailerons on this one unless I build another wing, in which case I'll do inset ailerons as I think they look more in keeping with the vintage look. I did this type on my Jabberwock with a central servo and they worked fine. I hope to get a fair bit done this weekend, then I'm aiming to build the Sharkface and start the Matador over Christmas, that's the plan anyway but we all know about the best laid plans .

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

Posted by Richard Harris on 15/12/2011 15:50:16:

Looking good Chris

 

Interested to see how the tail wheel will hook up?

 

I really do like the way you have done your gussets, I never seen that done before, kind of finishes things off.

 

When you doped the tailplane did you clamp it down flat whilst it dries off?

 

 

Rich

 

Hi Richard, I've used a second bush with a small steel C/L bell-crank tightened with the bush nut and some cyano wicked in the stop anything getting loose. Then when it's all together I've soldered the send bush to the shaft of the tail-wheel assembly, it'll be driven by the rudder servo off the inside holes of the output arm with the rudder on closed loop off the outside holes. I'll use a couple of springs inline as a servo saver for the tail-wheel.

 

I think that caused the demise of my mates PZ T28 the nose wheel is hooked up to the rudder servo with a push rod and the servo is a 9g plastic geared job which is OK for the rudder but landing shocks are transferred direct to the servo gears via the nose wheel push rod. the end result on the last flight the servo drove full right and stayed there and it spun in.

 

The tail plane is so solid that it didn't need weighting down, may be if I'd done the built up flat one it would have warped, but the gussets sub ribs and cap strips as well as the sub spars make it a really solid structure, on the scales it came out at 3.1oz covered and three coats of dope which I'm happy with.

Cheers,

 

Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 15/12/2011 17:55:15

[John Stephenson 2]

Hi Chris,

 

Thank you for the detailed description and photos of fuselage covering.

 

When you come to do the side covering - does the side overlap the bottom covering or is it trimmed flush with the edge of the frame again, just like the bottom.

 

I am also following Chris Bott covering his Matador with nylon.

 

Thanks again, John

[Big Bandit]

Hi John,

 

I'll do the trimming flush with the edge, with iron on film I'd cover the side first then about 1/8 overlap from the top and bottom. the secret I've found is when the top for instance is covered, hold a strip of 1/8 spruce against the fus side and trim to that, then iron the overlap down. takes some getting used too at first, but it works,. Again single edge razor blades work for me.

 

With Nylon as the final coats will be either dope or colour trimming to the edge will work fine. I must admit I'm out of practice with Nylon and am just starting to enjoy using it a again, it must be 30 or more years since I used it last, and at first I thought "what have I done", but now I'm back in my comfort zone.

 

The only real problem I have is that my dope is so old it's gone to a golden colour and as I've chosen white nylon the finish looks a bit patchy, but I'll get over that one way or another.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 16/12/2011 20:39:00

[Big Bandit]

Hi All,

 

Nothing done yesterday, I must have enjoyed my dinner too much. And when my daughter rang last night on the way back from the stables at Ilkely, near Leeds she said it was freezing, it wasn't bad here. Today it's right brass monkeys so the time in the shed was limited, I had the heater on but my feet were like ice, got some done though.

 

First off I cut another servo tray as I wasn't entirely happy with the first one, and fitted 3 New Power 16 gram servo's, in place of the Hi Tec onesthe metal geared New Power. come with output arms that are more suitable for what I want. I also found some suitable springs in the garage and cut two out of a longer one, form a loop at one end of each and a hook at the other end then attached the hooked ends to the bell-crank of the tail-wheel shaft.

 

With some cyano to lock them into place and stop them vibrating (metal to metal vibration can cause erratic disturbance and glitches of the radio gear) so it's best to do something to prevent this happening.

 

Then with every thing connected up a quick re-solder of the bush holding the bell-crank and align the tail wheel with the servo rudder servo centered using the servo tester, jobs a good un.

 

The original servo tray had all three servos side by side, but this I felt would be awkward to get the linkages how I like them so I've cut a new one with the elevator and throttle servo in front of the rudder servo and used an elongated output arm for the Rudder / Tail-wheel connections. The two UN-connected Kwik links are for the rudder closed loops, as they are, there is no interference with the Kwik links for the tail-wheel. If necessary I'll install some Plastic tube guides to achieve more separation. It'll be a conventional push rod for the elevator using a central horn. The throttle will be a 300mm threaded rod in a plastic tube

 

There's loads of room at the rear of the tray to form a return and attach the RX to that, it will also give a clear run for the RX aerial. The servo tester is worth it's weight in precious metal when setting up linkages, this one was £3.99 from BRC hobbies. Airborne battery is going in front of the tray below the tank. Now it's right brass monkeys down here.

 

So it was back indoors and some Spamwiches with sweet apple chuckeny in west country cider, from the local farm shop, washed down with a nice cuppa.

 

And a read of the latest addition to the Kindle from D. A. Russell,The Design and Construction of Flying Model Aircraft, absolute classic. The hard back version is about £90 if you can get it.

 

A couple of glasses of the NE amber nectar or may be a pint or two of Shepherd and Neame Spitfire, later and I'm sorted. A bit more tomorrow if I can.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

 

Edited By Big Bandit on 17/12/2011 19:50:41

Edited By Big Bandit on 17/12/2011 19:52:46

[Big Bandit]

Hi All,

 

Just looked up the garden to the shed, need to get more done today .

 

So I've been down there and put the heater on, gonna stay in the warm for a bit, give the heater a chance to warm the shed.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Alan Dorrell]

Hi Chris,

Wonderful blog. A couple of things. Covering with nylon. When doing my stunters, upon advice, I used to wet the nylon before laying it onto the doped airframe. You can then pull all the wrinkles out before applying the 50/50 dope. There was no worry about "blooming" as this would disappear after the second coat of dope. Of course, you had to wait a little longer for everything to dry out before that second coat.

 

I am getting on well, if some what slowly with 'Windy' and will do a complete if brief blog when she's done. I could be covering over the Christmas period, but not in nylon. Working indoors it has to be Solarfilm.

 

I was interested to see your comments re Kindle. I'll pm or e-mail you.

 

Merry Christmas to all. Alan.

[Kevin Fairgrieve]

Posted by Big Bandit on 17/12/2011 19:42:45:

Hi All,

 

And a read of the latest addition to the Kindle from D. A. Russell,The Design and Construction of Flying Model Aircraft, absolute classic. The hard back version is about £90 if you can get it.

 

 

 

 

Is that a free download or a paid for one?

 

If it is a freebie, any chance of the link?

 

Kev

[Big Bandit]

Hi Alan,

 

Great to meet up at the AGM and swapmeet last week, I've not tried the nylon wet because I was getting on so well with it dry, it's a thought though with larger area's. My biggest problem is with the thinned dope pooling on the first coat especially with area's like the fin. I was not happy with that at all, so today I wicked some neat thinners in, and stripped it not a problem. Then re-covered it.

. I'll check later

I must admit it's easier than doing the same thing with iron on film .

 

I found when doping the nylon it's best to turn the doped part over so that the any pooling is on the outside, then rub off any excess with a tissue soaked in thinners before it dries. Once the first coat is dry it's not that much of a problem. I think I'm rushing too much, although not had a problem yet with warping.

 

It's a pity that we don't use the older techniques and materials these days, rather than let newer materials take over, may be driven by market forces and the like Cant make up my mind if it's the smell of he dope or my longing to get back to my youth in a smelly shed. I'll go for the smelly shed .

 

Made up my first push rod for a long time today using boot thread and balsa cement, today it's all carbon fibre and heat shrink these days, which doesn't fit in with the vintage build.

 

I think the book on the Kindle cost about £7.00 which is better than £90, I'll check later to see what it costs me.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[flytilbroke]

Something that is free, at least my copy was,,, Kindle for the PC. Still got to pay for the books though. A very useful programe this, even though I have a portable Kindle.

[Big Bandit]

Hi Kevin, Alan,

 

Just had a look and it's £6.89 and worth it's weight in precious metals, if you've got a Kindle down load it, well worth a read, a real trip back in time and about £80 less than the hardback version.

 

Amazon \kindle store.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

Hi Kevin Alan, they now have it at £16 odd not sure it it's the real thing now, the kindle version is much cheaper.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Bob Cotsford]

Chris, I've only ever applied nylon wet, it goes on so much easier and stretches round 3d curves such as tips with lots less darts needed. Just bundle the cut panel up, soak it and gently squeeze out the excess water, then spread it over the part you are covering. Just pull out the wrinkles, don't stretch it too much, and dope around the edges to bond it to the frame. Let it dry, then give it a coat or two of dope all over.

As for pooling, I can only think you may be thinning the dope a little too much so that it soaks through the nylon before you can brush it out as it's not a problem I remember ever having.

[Big Bandit]

Sorry FTB

 

You've lost me on that one, but The book from D.A. Russell ain't free, but I've got shed loads that are, a DVD full in fact.

 

Empire of the clouds is another good read, can't remember what it costs for the kindle (not a lot), but it's much cheaper than the book. Anyone that's into early jets it's very adictive., and a compulsive read.

 

For anyone that likes Len Deighton, Good by Micky Mouse is good reading. I gave the original hard copy away gotta be worth £60 now.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

Hi Bob,

 

Done it now and it aint bad so far, do enjoy the dope though . When I do the fus sides I'll do it wet just to try it. It must be 30 years since I did it last.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

 

Hi All,

 

Did a bit more yesterday, but after some time in the shed freezing despite the heater, and shocked by the news report of the mid air at the local airfield (Leicester East) that I've done some flying from myself back in the 80's with a mate who, I helped with a home build of a VP2 and spent a lot of time there with the annual air display. All I can say it was tragic that someone lost their life and thankfully two others involved were only slightly injured.

 

Anyroad up I made progress on the elevator push rod (for anyone who's never done one before) first bend a 90 in a 2mm threaded rod and take 1 1/4 square hard balsa (still needs to be light and stiff) stick, drill a 2mm hole and cut a 2mm x 2mm groove to the end of the stick allowing 25 mm for binding.

 

 

I use boot thread (only because it was free) to bind the length of rod to the stick. Makes sense to apply a bead of balsa cement along the groove first.

 

Then rub some balsa cement through the tread to consolidate the fitting.

Make the other end of the push rod in the same way using 16 Gauge wire with a z bend at the servo end and a 90 at the other. Ensure that the threaded rod end for the elevator has a quick link screwed to it and the pin of the quick link lines up with trailing edge of the tailplane when fitted. With the z bend fitted to the output arm / disk of the servo and centered. Mark the 16 Gauge wire where the 90 degree bend needs to be with relation to a second hole drilled at the servo end of the 1/4 stick, then form the bend and bind as for the elevator end. Fit the arm / disk to the servo and it's job done.

 

As I've said I wasn't entirely happy with the covering of the fin, so a bit of cellulose thinners wicked in around the edges and it's fairly easy to remove the existing nylon and leave a very clean balsa structure to re-cover.

 

Iron on films on the other hand leave a colored adhesive residue that's a real pain to remove.

 

The recovered fin with new nylon and using the dope the outline and re- soften with thinners technique as previously described, and I'm a much happier bunny with the result. No unsightly internal pooling. and it's drum tight.

 

Just the sides to cover now, Hinge the control surfaces, fit the motor, add some colour trim and transfers (decals). I've checked the movement of the elevator push rod with relation to it's position with the elevator with the horn fitted, and its got plenty of free movement and no interference with the closed loop systems for the rudder and tail-wheel. Elevator and Rudder already covered ready for hinging. It makes sense to leave the sides uncovered until all of the control runs are in place and checked for interference and free movement as far as is practical, this is my usual practice anyway.

 

Work again tomorrow, and Wednesday when I've got a Greener Safer Driving course to do, looking forward to that (NOT). And the daughters driving down from Leeds tomorrow night with her partner for Christmas, so It'll be closer to the weekend before I'll get more done, allowing for some last minute shopping as well. Any comments so far feel free to ask / question, and I'll do my best to answer everyone.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

 

Edited By Big Bandit on 19/12/2011 19:29:26

Edited By Big Bandit on 19/12/2011 19:44:08

Edited By Big Bandit on 19/12/2011 19:53:07

[Andy Green]

Going great guns Chris - Too cold to do much on mine at the mo.

 

You don't have to have a Kindle to read kindle books, just download the free apps and away you go.

 

Andy

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Looking good Chris.....I like the quick pushrod tutorial....that takes me back.....I can't remember the last time I made a pushrod. Must have been years ago.....

 

The nylon takes me back... I've only ever covered 1 or 2 models in it & that must have been about 30 years ago. It's incredibly strong isn't it? I recall crashing a nylon covered model & the balsa inside disintegrated but the nylon held firm....saved on a bin bag anyway.....

 

Just a quick comment if I may but going back to the tailwheel....how is this supported where it enters the fuselage? I'm thinking about "upwards" shock loads on landing.....might it be an idea to fit a collet to the tailwheel assembly where it enters the fuselage. This would then spread any load over the fuselage where the tailwheel wire enters & stop the tailwheel being forced up into its mounting.......

 

Just a thought......