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Matador


Lee Damms
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  • 3 weeks later...
Hi Chris, re electric motor I'll let you know if it's sensible later, things have been moving a little slower lately but hopefully i'll get on with the wings next week. Everything will be covered in litespan. As mentioned earlier preformed leading edge maybe full centre section sheeting. Tailplane will definately be glued on with perhaps sheeting to aid fixing to fuselage. Hope to see more of yours later.
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  • 2 weeks later...
Lee,
 
3" wheels are too big unless you are using whats in your spares box. 

The Mercury plan specified 2" wheels and I would suggest the very light foam wheels - save weight and just as effective. 

I am flying an 18oz Keil kraft eaglet scaled up to 48" on a 100 watt low kva motor with 2s 1000 lipo and have never flown it long enough to run out of power. The Eaglet is covered in doped polyspan which is a trifle heavier than litespan which is the way to go with yours

If your motor is low kva - less than 1500 - then you can go for a 2 cell battery with a bigger prop and squeeze the battery in behind the motor to get cg right and the weight down 

 photos of the Eaglet are in my album and it can be seen flying here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP9-A6T6p8E&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL 

the matador was one of my earlier builds as a teenager and I had no problems with it - just do everything you can to keep weight down and it will then fly slow and graceful as vintage should
 
john

Edited By John Laird on 02/01/2012 21:18:40

Edited By John Laird on 02/01/2012 21:19:12

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Great to see the Matador still draws such interest. One of my favourite models in the Sutton Park halcyon days of the 50s and 60s. I built one from the Ben Buckle kit 5 years ago, covered it with Solartex. To get close to authenticity I fitted a new PAW 1.49 diesel, which was a mistake because it was a pig to start, far worse more than any other diesel I have ever owned and very frustrating. When it did go however, the Matador flew just like it should. That is until I looped it exuberantly and the wings folded! I've kept the wreckage because I think it's repairable, but when I get around to it I will beef up the wing and fit a different engine, most likely another diesel.
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Hi John, the wheels were bought for the job. Mines built from the Ben Buckle plan signed Nov 2nd 1986 on which it says Engines 1- 1.5cc,, Props 8x4 or 9x4, wheels 3" Solartex 1.2meters weight with 3 ch radio and PAW 1.49 is 2.4lbs. Now luckily I have got some 21/4 in wheels in the spares box I may press into service depending how she balances. I will be covering her in litespan not solartex though. I was actually torn on which to fit because they do look very large but the 21/4 a tad small. It will be interesting to see what the final weight is.
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Lee,
not sure how BB got 3" wheels,but my original Mercury matador plan definitely states 2" and as you observed , 3" looks too big.
How BB can recommend solartex for a 47" span model beats me. No wonder thier weight is 2.4lbs which on the matador wing area is about 16oz/sq ft - a wing loading more suited to a larger bulk standard trainer rather than a vintage model.
 
I try for about 10/12 oz /ft loading max to keep flight speed down - light wt X low speed equates to low inertia and as we all know its the inertia that does the damage when the model stops on a sudden arrival
John
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Hi Lee,
 
I'm with John on the wheels 3" just looks too big 2 1/4 would look a far better size. As for the AUW I'm surprised at 2 1/4 lb's, with modern light weight radio gear and litespan covering, I'd expect to come out at about half of that.
 
When the Super 60's done I'll start on mine and use some of your idea's, following with interest.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 04/01/2012 04:23:41

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Hi John Chris/John, The notes on the plan are hand wriitten I can only assume these were added by BB when they updated the plan for 3ch in 1986 there's also a hand written note mentioning the removal of incidence for a more modern trainer like performance. The original angles giving more of a fast climb and long glide, I'll be sticking with the original and as you suggest smaller wheels. As regards solartex on small models my mini super is covered in solartex and flies well but matador will be cream and red litespan. The 21/4 lbs quoted was for 1986 3ch radio gear PAW 1.49 and solartex covered model. I would estimate mine to be about 20oz. when completed.
Must get some digital scales.
Lee
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BB do seem to have a liking for really big wheels I was looking at the ones spec'ed for my Elf - they are enormous! It looks quite comic with them in the pictures on the BB website! Still, I might go with them - our strip was quite bumpy! Having said that we've had it leveled over the winter - so maybe it will be better now? I'll have to wait until the spring to find out.
 
Lovely model Lee - and you're making a really nice job of it.
 
BEB
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Hi BEB
I'd never noticed but yep theres quite a few of the Ben Buckle models that seem to have enormous wheels. In fact the ones on his electric junior 60 look bigger than those on the super 60. If the idiots on motor bikes have been doing doughnuts on our field I'll need 6" wheels. lol
 
Le
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Prior to starting the wings I'd been moaning about the table I build on not being perfectly flat and a fellow aeromodeller said thats why he builds on glass. Now this was new to me and I thought this could be a real pain but since the 10mm plate glass was supplied free I thought give it a go. Its a case of using wedges stuck on the glass with superglue and weights. The wedges and glue removed later with one of those paint scraper things you use round windows. I'll report how it goes later but here's the first photos. Note weights removed from TE just for photo, it doesn't look like some ribs are flat to the glass but they are and it is strange looking through 10mm of glass onto the plan.

 
 


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Looking very good Lee,
 
Cant wait to get going on mine soon!!
 
May be coming to you with questions!!
 
To be homest, I like the look of BIG wheels.
They remind me of the Tundra Tyres you see on those planes that fly around the Alaskan outback!! Besides, our field is used by football groups also so gets very bumpy. I think mine will need the large wheels on it!!
 
Dave
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Hi David hope this helps starting on the left your first cutout is for the leading edge, 2nd for the top spar thats why the cutouts so deep, 3rd for the first bottom spar and lastly the back corner of the fin has a cutout for the last bottom spar. Note on the plan it shows additional spars on top of tailplane to support the fin. I didn't do this, the decision was made to glue the tail on so 2 extra ribs were made with sheeting top and bottom to facilitate this.
Regards Lee
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  • 2 weeks later...

Not done much more other than start the other wing half, I did however decide to weigh everything. Existing wing half x 2, servos, snakes, lipo, fuselage, tailplane with fin and 4 packs of litespan including the backing in total 24 ozs or 681 gms given that it should only take 3 sheets of litespan I think the 145w motor should be ok. The only question is its only pulling 109 watts on a ACPE 8x4 prop with the Turnigy 1300mah 3s lipo, should I try an ACPE 9x4.7 advice would be most welcome.

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Hi Lee
 
Sounds a bit on the low side to me, what motor are you using. Your going to want a slow flying model to keep in character so, a larger diameter prop, same pitch is the easy answer providing you don't exceed the max current for the motor and you have the ground clearance. or it may be a slightly bigger bite with a greater pitch, but that can be a pain with acceleration at times, or a similar motor of a higher Kv using the same prop will raise the current draw slightly.
 
Your system will probably fly, but I should think will be marginal. I would aim for 75 watts per Lb or 100 watts to give some headroom and it's a bit of a draggy airframe.
 
At the weekend I'll measure the Quiver which is about the same size and just as draggy and come back with some figures, sorry I can't do it before then, but work is going to be a pain this week.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 23/01/2012 21:12:27

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Lee,
 
Just done some quick calcs and your looking at 72.66 watts per Lb, so your not far off, and that's assuming the lipo is not fresh off the charger and has had time to settle down. So an inch on the diameter and your in with a shout.
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.
 
PS just read your post and 145 watts at 13 amps is the max given 11.1 volts for the lipo and they do sag a bit so at 10 volts dragging 12 amps gives 120 watts which is more realistic to expect at 80 watts per Lb should fly it reasonably well. So I'd prop it for that.
 
Once it's airborne a bit of throttle use should return a decent flight for the type. The minimum ESC I'd use is 18 Amp for that setup.

Cheers,

Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 23/01/2012 21:42:17

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