Lee Damms Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thanks Chris, I'll get another prop and let you know what comes up on the watt meter. Regards Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi Lee.....I agree with what Chris has said regarding power.....there is an interesting discussion going on here regarding set up using the same motor in Tim Hoopers Pix E which is a similar size to the Matty although significantly lighter.... The Matty is a bit bulkier though so will have a bit more drag. I think a 9x6 slo fly on a 3S battery will get you to around 130watts which should be OK given the weight. I don't think you'll have much in reserve though so it wil be a calm weather flyer.... Hope this helps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hmm this is getting interesting, thanks for the feedback guys looks like I may have to think of a bigger motor depending how I keep the weight down and what a bigger prop does. Any recommendations for a bigger motor along the emax lines Thanks Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The "bell" type outrunners tend to be limited to around the 140watts level....if you want to go for more power then you are probably looking at a "proper" outrunner.....maybe rated around 18-20A (200watts) with a lowish kv of around 900 to 1000 to allow you to use a large prop..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Having a think about this Lee I'm not totally convinced you'll need it.....its surprising how little power these vintage designs need to stay in the air. If you go for a 9x6 prop you'll probably be on 140watts on 3S & thats over 80 watts/lb which should be plenty....my Mini Tyro weighs 16 oz & has 58 watts at peak & it flies on half throttle.... I think I've got a CF2822 & a 9x6.....bear with me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Its a 9x4.7 not a 9x6!!! I've just tried it & got 120watts at a touch over 12A but the battery was in storage mode so was sagging to under 10volts. I've just put it on charge so we'll see what it does when charged up. I have to say though that the thrust even at this level was pretty good.....I think it will get your Matty off the ground no problem!!! I'll post back when the battery is charged.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Tried again with a full battery..... This was a 2200 3S pack so it held up rather well at 11.8volts & 14A for 165watts & a very impressive draft......I thottled back to get 145watts & there was still plenty of pull....more than yer average 1.5cc diesel anyway.... I would happliy put this in a Matty Lee.......I don't think you've anything to worry about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bandit Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi Lee, Steve, From what Steve has tried, I'd say with a larger prop should work. On the Quiver I use a 1500 lipo which doesn't sag so much as the 1300 your using. the 2200 which Steve has used will not sag very much at all so I'd just go up on the diameter. Again on the Quiver I use a higher Kv motor and a lower diameter prop with a lower pitch from memory it's a 7 x 4 on a 2300 Kv motor, but only a 2S 1500 lipo so I'm pulling more current for a lower voltage, hence the smaller prop to achieve the roughly the same wattage. I'll be interested on what you think when you try a larger prop. As I said earlier today's been a real pain, crawling though underground tunnels with a rescue harness, full emergency breathing apparatus on, in complete darkness and thinking what am I doing here, after half a day of being told that I could be in an oxygen depleted atmosphere or operating within a toxic gas atmosphere with the consequences being graphically be given from of brain /internal organ / lung damage to death. Tomorrows much of the same with all of the current legislation thrown in. Can't wait for the week end and getting back to some real relaxing and modeling. Cheers, Chris.Edited By Big Bandit on 24/01/2012 21:15:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi Steve/Chris thanks for the feedback, 9x4.7 it is then I'll hopefully pick one up on Wednesday and post the watt meter readings, My ESC is rated 20amps. Regards Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Chris makes a good point in that a smaller battery will sag a bit more under load..... Good prop here at a bargain price....this is the one I used in the test above.... An interesting day Chris.....after that you should be able to build a model in a darkened shed & cope with a cellulose dope laden atmosphere no problem..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hi Steve/Chris Got a 9x4.5 ACPE prop today the figures are 119watts 11..4 Amps 10.46 volts which adds up. This was on my 1300 lipo straight out of the cold garage 82% capacity. I'll be ordering a 2000 or 2200 I think, the lipo I've been testing with is out of my Parkzone Spitfire. Thanks for the link Steve a good place for props and motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Giant Cod are very good for the small powerful magnets also... I've got hundreds on the fridge door to hold notes and things on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bandit Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hi Lee, I think now you'll be in with a shout of a sweet flying model, I'll be very be interested on how it fly's. Steve, I can't help thinking I shouldn't be doing this kind of think anymore at my age , at least I can spend the whole weekend in the shed with a clear conscience and think I've earned this. And I can say to my team on Monday I'm prepared to do it, are there any issues why you can't . Cheers, Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 GC are excellent for...well most things really but motors ESCs & batteries are always worth a look..... The prop I tried was a slo fly type & these have (generally) larger blades...more like paddles really...& these really shift the air & that, at the end of the day, is what its all about really. So it might be worth getting a couple of those to try too.....at 60p they won't break the bank.... Be wary of getting into the more power equals more weight which needs more power spiral....."add lightness" should always be your mantra in aviation...especially for these vintage types.....you might find that your Matty flys better at 120 watts with a 1300 Lipo than at 140watts on a 4 oz heavier 2200..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Posted by Steve Hargreaves on 27/01/2012 10:21:33: Be wary of getting into the more power equals more weight which needs more power spiral....."add lightness" should always be your mantra in aviation...especially for these vintage types.....you might find that your Matty flys better at 120 watts with a 1300 Lipo than at 140watts on a 4 oz heavier 2200..... Steve is bang on in adding " lightness" - I saved 2 ozs in 20 ozs by changing motor and ESC to lighter less powerful ones after I maidened the scaled up Eaglet (48") and decided it was a bit heavy and didnt need all the power. Fortunately I had anticipated this and made provision for changing out the motor - see pic which actually shows the initial motor and esc, both of which have been changed to less powerful/weighty versions. You can also see slot to slide in the motor mount. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Steve/John Re larger capacity = extra weight, point taken the Matador will now be on sweetex instead of sugar LoL Regards Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I forgor to insert the motor mount picture of the Eaglet - so here it is now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bandit Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 John, Spill the beans, the Eaglet x 2 looks stunning, but where did you get the tissue trim from, it certainly looks better than the stuff I got for the Super 60. Polyspan and dope floats my boat, just need to get the LMS to stock it And the Mercury Mallard, one I've not heard of before, but looks fantastic, where can we get a plan and what size diesel does it want to fly properly. The Rudder bug I already have the original plan for and is on the future build list along with hundreds of others. Cheers, Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Chris, thanks for the comments on the eaglet - it can be seen flying here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP9-A6T6p8E&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL You can also see me having a break sitting in the tailend of my car with the Eaglet,Southerner and Majestic Major in front. On Miks videos listed at the utube's website, there are also videos of the southerner and majestic major with mood music to match. I have a small stock of modelspan (?) light and heavy weight tissue accumulated a long time ago and used sparingly to eke it out. John Hook at http://www.flitehook.net stocks tissue which I would think is OK as he supplies to the vintage/freeflight fraternity. There is also another supplier for the same group but I dont recall the name as I get most of my "old" model supplies from John who flies at the same field as I do. Try a google on freeflight and see what comes up. The purple tissue trim on the mamselle was wrapping tissue - it was the right colour but absolutely horrible to put on as the dope did not soak in to the tissue - I had to dope the main surface first and lay the tissue on then dope over to seal and even then it still peels off. The Mercury Mallard goes back a long way - not too successful for RC as it is designed for contest and at end of power climb would transfer into fairly tight circle ( to keep in thermals ) and that was OK but any attempt to fly straight into wind to keep it overhead immediately translated into severe stalling. CG was about 85% back from L/edge as designed. Plans can be got from Colin Smith ( Phil's son ) who will scale up/down as req'd ( mines was 150% of original.) Out of date list of plans here with Colin's email address http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229423&page=3. The original 48" span Mallard was designed for 1.8 to 2.9 ccs with the 2.49 elfin quoted - so you can see it was contest powered for its size. The rudderbug was ( note past tense really nice to fly. Its on my todo list as well as i still have the flying surfaces - just need a fus - johnEdited By John Laird on 28/01/2012 21:31:18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bandit Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks for the links John, I use Flighthook for my FF supplies, but generally only buy at the shows. I do have a god stock of Jap tissue which I'm not all that keen on, model span is my first choice if coloured stuff is available. I tried craft tissue on the Super 60 cowl and it was hopeless so painting on trim is the only way to go now, and spraying is out of the question due to it being too messy. I do like the video that's what vintage is all about to me. Cheers, Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Excellent video John....gives us all something to look forward too when the weather warms up.... Loved the Eaglet too...I built a rubber powered one as a schoolboy.....it never flew particularly well & met a sad end when I added "just one more turn" to the motor......its amazing how short a fuselage can get isn't it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Brilliant video John, oh dear more models to add to the build list. Regards Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 So what news Lee....? Has Matty flown yet?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hi Steve, It's been a bit slow lately, caravan season just statred been to open the van up. Covered tail and fin got to cover the wings and fuselage, Snake installed for the elevator and it will be push rod for the rudder since I've tried to keep to the original in so much that its not a full depth rudder. Chris Bott went for a nylon covering and I'm thinking wise decision. Although the litespan does'nt have the same weight penalty its a pig to do, there is very little shrinkage so going round wings is a right so and so. Solartex is a dream compared to this and the supplied litespan sheets are small. Will try and get some more photos uploaded later tonight. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hi Steve here's the latest photo as promised, rudder pushrod to insert (using snake outer), tail skid to glue on, wing dowels to fit after canopy. I've enough cream litespan for the fuselage but I'll be a bit short for the wings probably need another red sheet, the LMS has it on order. Oh and I've decided to keep the large wheels weighed some the next size down and they were 2 grams heavier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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