Quaker Flash build

[Andy Butler]

I had a nostalgic moment in the LHS recently and came away with a Quaker Flash kit by Ben Buckle. It's has a wingspan of 67" and makes a nice vintage 3 channel summer (if we ever get one) flyer. I haven't had a kit like this in too many years. A plan, a bundle of sticks and some wire. It even has reeds for the fin, elevator and wing tips. Ok I'm getting on but I'm not that old and I don't remeber ever having to soak reeds to get them to conform to some wicked curves. The fuselage is pretty much there and it will be electric - yes I know it should have a 2.5cc diesel in it but noise for me is an issue - and getting the thing started.

I'll post some pictures up if anyone's interested - or if anyone has done this let me know how you got on.

edit:  the subtitle should of course have been 'and it's electrification'  - damn these tiny keyboards.

Edit 2: on the other hand it's quite apposite that it has an e in it - non?

Edited By Andy Butler on 08/05/2012 14:39:31

Edited By Andy Butler on 08/05/2012 14:41:22

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I was going to comment on your Freudian slip but you beat me to it!

BTW - how can you claim the Diesel option to be too noisy if you can't start it?

Oh - and pedantic hat on (as you raised the subject) - it should be its - not it's...

Edited By Martin Harris on 08/05/2012 15:34:37

[Pete B]

I'll be watching this thread with interest, Andy - I managed to snuck one of these off Ebay a few weeks ago (won't upset you with a price) and it's now in a queue of boxes, so I'll be able to take advantage of your experience!

Something in the region of a 3542/1000Kv, about 300W, will be about right for me, I think.

Pete

[Andy Butler]

Martin - ah the dreaded apostrophe - its a quandry

Pete - I don't want to know what you paid, I'll just get depressed - mind you I did have the great good fortune to snap up a quarter scale DB Sopwith Pup kit, that my good lady bought for my birthday. It's not the current kit, being about 15 years old but I got it for an absolute steal. Now that is a big box of wood and wire.

Anyhow, back to the Quaker Flash and some photo's of where I'm up to;

Great minds think alike Martin, I have a 1000kv 3542 mounted and ready to bolt on the front. I'm also using a 60A ESC and will be using a 3s Lipo turning something like a 11x6 prop. I'll check the setup out with my wattmeter when I get a chance. The ESC is already installed as it will become impossible to get it in once the undercarriage is installed, which is a project on its own. That is some pretty hefty piano wire but I didn't make a complete dogs breakfast of it. I've installed a battery tray that sits on the bottom of battery sized cut outs in F2 and F3. It's sized to take a 4500mAh 3s but the final battery choice will be dependant on the amount of nose weight required to balance the thing but the tray also extends back to the CoG so some movement is possible.

More soon.

[Pete B]

That's looking very nice, Andy - and the battery placement is much as I did on my Black Magic. The u/c has just sent a cold shiver down the spine, though........

My BM is on the same motor with an 11x5 prop and only draws 23A, so you might be able to drop back to a 30 or 40A ESc to save a bit of weight, if it helps.

I've just been through the 2012 Mass Vintage build section and there is no QF being built there, so this is a bit of a one-off! Any chance of it going to Greenacres?

Pete

[Andy Butler]

Pete,

I can't make Greenacres due to work commitments which is a shame but I'm not sure it will be ready by then anyway. I'm away with work next week so no progress for a bit. I have added the 1/8" stringers on the fusleage now though and when I get back I'll crack on with the tail feathers. I'll post pictures as I go too for anyone else building one of these.

Andy

[Andy Butler]

Well work continues. I've made up a ply plate with a couple of 1/4" square spruce rails for the servos. This fits behind the original position but gives more room to access the battery. The receiver will sit on the other side of the plate so the leads all go straight in. I am thinking of using snakes for the rear end, not very vintage but easy to set up. I'll have a go at pushrods first but I haven't had much luck in the past.

servo plate front

and rear with Rx where it will eventually go.

The motor I will be using, an EMP3542/1000Kv as mentioned above.

And lastly, having soaked the reed for 10 minutes as advised, it bends easily around the fin and rudder quite easily. Here it is pinned in position, drying out where it should retain the shape. The the fin and rudder are built as a unit and the reed cut once everything has dried. This will become more obvious as the build progresses.

More as it continues...

[Andy Butler]

OK, so back from my travels, work continues. The fin and rudder are built over the plan, all pretty standard so far - apart from the reed, which as you can see is still in one piece.

I added some 3/16" sheet for the rudder horn position and extended the fin down to the 3/16" tailplane core. The 3/32" pieces added to acheive the correct section will be added either side so forming a nice socket for the fin to sit in, rather than having it balanced on the top. You will see what I mean about the 3/32" additions in the following picture as they are added to the fin and rudder also.

So the strip is added and sanded to section creating in effect ribs but created in situ.

And here it is, all sanded smooth and given a final sand with 1200 grade wet and dry used dry. This doesn't so much sand it as polish the wood to a lovely finish already for covering. I have bound the reed to the leading edge with some fine cotton thread over a small area as stated on the plan which you can just make out at the top of the picture.

Speaking of which, other than tissue and dope, what do people recommend for covering?

Next, the tailplane and elevators.

Edited By Andy Butler on 19/05/2012 16:45:14

Edited By Andy Butler on 19/05/2012 16:45:57

Edited By Andy Butler on 19/05/2012 16:47:15

[ken anderson.]

hello andy-vintage cream solartex will be the covering i would go for..finished with a red or black scheme(vintage) - will look the bee's knee's...something like this...

 

ken anderson...bee's knee's dept....

Edited By ken anderson. on 19/05/2012 17:03:15

[Andy Butler]

That looks great Ken and thanks for the advice. Is the black painted?

On with the build, the tailplane and elevators hit the board and were built over the plan as per normal. The reeds were soaked first for ten minutes in warm water and they bent round very nicely. As with the fin, the reeds were left in one piece until all the glue joints had thoroughly dried before separating the two parts. The centre section had some extra added to allow the 3/32" strips that are added to allow sanding to the correct section to pass either side of the fin so creating the 'socket' mentioned earlier.

This one shows the reed in one piece while the glue dries.

And finally separated.

The angles look a little strange at the tips but in the flesh they're OK, it must be the angle the picture was taken from. Next is adding th rest of the 3/32" strips but I've run out and I don't have any sheet to cut some more. You have to be really careful with the wood as there really isn't much supplied. I put aside the parts needed for the wing and built the flappy bits with what was left and I'm still short.

Ho hum a trip to the LHS is in order, luckily not far away and I'm off tomorrow.

More when restocked.

[Andy Butler]

Well some more balsa was obtained and the build continues. The rest of the 3/32" strips were added and the whole lot left to dry. The tailplane and elevators were then persuaded into shape.

This shows the socket that was built in for the fin to sit in

And very snugly it does fit

While sanding the elevators, there was an ominous sounding crack and on very close inspection, the main 3/16" square leading edge strip was beginning to break at the weakest part, the join between the two main elevator sections. A simple glue job done properly would probably have sorted it but I decided that it could do with some more strength so I bent up and let in a wire joiner and epoxied that into place. It extends into the sheet filled section by about 35mm so is now good and strong.

Finally after some more very fine sanding, the tail ends were hinged and are ready to cover.

[Andy Butler]

I haven't forgotten about this though I haven't posted for a few days (not that anyone's interested by the looks). I've been sorting the fuselage out, geting the front end somwhere near to finished and bound the undercarriage on. I'll post some more pictures when time permits.

[Pete B]

Fear not, Andy, there'll be a few lurkers - and I'm watching it with great interest!

Pete

[Andy Butler]

Thanks for that Pete, it makes it all worthwhile - I've lost count of the number of times I've searched through a build thread and suddenly it all makes sense.

More photo's as promised. I've slightly redesigned the front end. An IC engine would have a vertical component - the cylinder and head. With an electric motor it all happens in the horizontal plane and looks a bit odd. I'm not sure I'm entirely happy with it but I'll continue to think about it - I've still got to build the wings yet!

So progress so far;

Servos are in and just need hooking up before it gets covered. These frame built models look great but access suddenly becomes really limited. There is a cross piece to go in but it sits right above the servo's so that will go in last, before covering. Which is now ordered, 4 metres of antique Solartex. Should look the part.

More soon.

[Andy Butler]

Right, a bit more done. I've revisited the front end as it didn't look finished so I've re-designed it and built it up a bit so it looks complete and fits in with the original design rather nicely - if I do say so myself. The purists may want to stone me for heresy but isn't that what building is about? The prop in the photo is a 12 x 8 and happened to be lying there when I wanted to see how the front looked. Anyhow, the servos are hooked up at the servo end and the last 1/4" cross member and 1/8" square bottom stringer has been added, as have the 3/16" square front cabin uprights. The tailplane platform has had a light sanding and the tailplane now sits nice and level and in line with a straight edge placed across the wing seat. So that, apart from the wing mounting arrangement, sees the fuselage complete. As for the wing retaining, I'm looking at wing bolts at the rear and a 'catch' at the front that locates under the 1/4" square cabin front crossmember. I wanted to steer clear of banding on the wings but may go that route if my original idea proves to be unworkable. So here are the latest photos for your delectation and delight.

Next the wings....

Now where were those wing plans?

Edited By Andy Butler on 05/06/2012 13:42:53

[Andy Butler]

Well one wing is complete and the other will take no time at all. Although the bulk of the wing is very straight forward, the reed tip takes a bit of getting your head around. I've got the covering now too so not far from the flying bit - if the weather ever brightens up. I'll post some photo's when I get home showing the completed wing panel. Still haven't decided on the wing fixing yet so I'll wait until I build the short centre section and see what can be done.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Pete B]

I don't think so, Andrew - Colonel Taplin was using leccy back in the '50's and there's a short video here.

The nose-job looks fine as does the rest of your build, Andy. I'll be doing something similar when I get a round tuit........

Pete

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andy Butler]

Brilliant video - loved seeing all those cells packed in there - looked like my first attempts back when Nimh packs were new.

Anyhow, on with the wings. Pictures below show one completed wing, pretty much a standard panel. The reed tip took a bit of head scratching as there's precious few instructions and to be honest was a bit of a suck it and see but it all worked out in the end. The other panel will be a pretty simple job to do the same again (only the other way round obviously).

So there you have it, progress so far. I'm away again next week so little progress in the near term but back with the other wing as soon as I can.

[Pete B]

Posted by Andrew Ray on 14/06/2012 07:22:35:

Pete, fascinating video, although looking at the stall I wonder if that particular flight ended well.

Yes, I suspect that a judicious bit of editing cut the nose-dive into the deck!

That's a very elegant wingtip, isn't it? More 'soak it and see' rather than 'suck it and see', eh?

Pete

[Andy Butler]

Hi all,

Back from my travels at last - I hate having to go away on business - keeps me away from my garage / workshop.

The wings are now completed and joined and I'm just working on joining them to the fus. I will post some pictures sometime over the weekend. Once this is done, it's ready to cover.

[Andy Butler]

Well the camera has gone AWOL so no pictures unfortunately. I'm sure it will turn up but for now - The wingsa and tail feathers are covered and hinged. The fuselage is covered, apart from the bottom for now and the wing retention bit works well. I'll describe that and get pictures when the camera turns up. The windscreen is done and the 1/64"ply window frames are painted and glazed and ready to be fixed in place. I haven't added the tailplane and fin yet as I'm still having to move it around a bit to get the windows in place. When they're complete, the tail can be added.

As I said earlier, I haven't covered the bottom of the fuselage i case I need to do some internal work as I think that the battery tray / shelf is going to be way too far forward. With the tail precariously balanced in place, the COG is spot on, but that is without the battery in place and the wheels aren't on yet. I might have to make a vertical ply box that the battery drops in to and epoxy it to whatever structure I can at the required point to get the COG right. With a small IC engine it would probably be right on the money - but then that was the original design intent so I can't really complain.

I will post some pictures when the camera goblins have had their fun and put the thing back.

One tip I really want to stress is make up a template from paper or thin card for the windscreen before resorting to cutting. Check it several times, pin it clamp it and trim to a perfect fit before cutting the (very thin) clear windscreen material.

[Andy Butler]

Well having wrested the camera back it's photo time:

A couple of shots of the nearly finished front end. I'll trim the windscreen with some black tape to tidy it up.

The ears sticking up are part of the wing retention. A plate epoxied and reinforced on the bottom of the wing attached to the leading edge slides under the slots in the ply ears and are screwed down at the rear of the wing - simple but a pain to get the thing right.

A completed wing

and a close up of the wing plate that slots under the ply upstands. The were securely screwed into place and epoxied so should be plenty strong enough.

More as things near completion.

[Mart49]

I've enjoyed this build, thanks. Looking really good, and I'm quite tempted myself. Looking forward to the maiden!