Jon Laughton Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 DB designed Super Mascot - someone is now in the process of refurbishing this particular airframe and engine combo; I originally commenced the build in 1995 so it has lasted well! I strengthened the horizontal stabiliser, added a carbon undercarriage and made an access hatch for the fuel tank ahead of the cockpit otherwise it was a stock model. Big, strong and stable - and it is is still available in the traditional kit form I built up... I quickly outgrew it but i have fond memories - particualrly of that first maiden flight.... I also practised for my B certificate on an Irvine Tutor which was fine... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Posted by andy watson on 03/05/2013 08:15:27: An often ignored little trainer I like is the jumper 25. Struggles to get off grass with the recommended 25, but put a 40 into it and it's a great little plane. Slightly smaller than the similar liiking arising star- but cheaper as well. Yes, they are excellent. We've had two on an OS 25 FSR, a great little trainer that is very good value for money. CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redex Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 If electric is the chosen route then how about the the E-Pioneer trainer, it flies slow when required, for lots of 'thinking time' can handle reasonable wind conditions, robust construction for those early 'arrivals' reasonable to buy, spare parts available and will keep you going after an 'A' test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 First of all, thanks to all those who have responded! I have suggested to my fellow club member that he has a look at either the "Arising Star" or Irvine Tutor. I hadn't come across the "Arising Star" before, and my experience with film covered Chinese / Vietnamese models (I'm currently flying a "SpaceWalker" is that they are a little light and fragile for typical UK conditions. But its the right size, and seems to be highly recommended! I was aware of the Irvine Tutor, but having no first hand experience of it, I had classed it as another "Lead-sled", as it bears a strong resemblance to the model already being flown! As far as I can make out the "Telemaster" is no longer readily available in the UK, and in any case, I think this member might find balsa bashing a bit too much! I had forgotten the DB Mascot! All DBs models flew superbly, so I would have no hesitation in recommending this, other than that the pilot in question almost certainly needs an ARTF! Coming round to the other suggestions: The "Super 60" - I had one of hese back in the late 60s - initially with single channel / escapement, ending up with a Merco 35 and six channel reeds. A nice stable model, but a little "floaty". Also, as it was originally designed for single channel, the dihedral is a little excessive for multi channel control. I have built a number of half-size versions with half the dihedral, and these fly very well, but I suspect the individual in question is not up to that amount of balsa work! This actually brings me back to the much neglected Frog Jackdaw, which was similar in size and appearance to the Super 60, but designed with multi-channel options from the start! Probably a much better model for today's equipment and conditions than the dear old Super 60! Why is it so neglected? My personal favourite was always the Veron Robot. Compact, yet strong and stable. The perfect trainer. Why is this brilliant model no longer available? <Sigh!> Finally, the Goldberg Falcon. OK, so in its day it was sold as an aerobatic trainer, but it still had much better flying characteristics than many of the current crop of "trainers"! A few general observations: Tricycle undercarriages may make take-off easier, but are much more prone to damage on landing on a typical British "strip"! Give me a tail-dragger any day! Semi-symmetrical wings are less prone to "zooming" in blustery conditions typical of the UK, yet can be slowed up nicely for landings. Much better than a flat bottom section for general flying. Dihedral should be sufficient to provide positive stability, but not so much as to cause "wallowing" if the rudder is used a bit ham-fistedly (I'm thinking of the Super 60 here!). Hmm! Perhaps I ought so sit down and design something - or at least update an older design - once my house move is over.....! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 03/05/2013 at 09:15, andy watson said: An often ignored little trainer I like is the jumper 25. Struggles to get off grass with the recommended 25, but put a 40 into it and it's a great little plane. Slightly smaller than the similar liiking arising star- but cheaper as well. I have the Seagull Jumper 25 and your right, it's a great little flyer. I've had it now for 8 years and it's powered with a Saito 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 It’s the same age as this thread then! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: It’s the same age as this thread then! That's right - it's time for a... ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON CRAGG Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 ST Discovery or Avios Grand Tundra are both good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Max Thrust Riot flies well, not too floaty for a foamy and aerobatic enough for the next stage. It's got a fiddly little battery box though, and no room for something bigger than a 2200 for more duration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: It’s the same age as this thread then! Very true 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: It’s the same age as this thread then! But not as old as the forumites !!! (or their fetchermites). Edited March 9, 2022 by kevin b 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis 2 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 In my opinion a trainer should be at least five feet in the wingspan so that an older beginner can see it more clearly, so a Jumper with a 40 in it is a model which some elderly beginners might have some difficulty in seeing it let alone in flying it. younger beginners may be able to handle a fairly high speed trainer but in my experience, older beginners prefer to fly a vintage model as a first step. My favourite trainer is the Telemaster 40. My favourite ARTF trainer is the Seagull Boomerang whose semi symmetrical wing section allows the model to be flown in quite strong winds once the novice has gained some experience. My favourite vintage model for use as a basic trainer is the Radio Queen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 15 minutes ago, David Davis 2 said: In my opinion a trainer should be at least five feet in the wingspan so that an older beginner can see it more clearly, so a Jumper with a 40 in it is a model which some elderly beginners might have some difficulty in seeing it let alone in flying it. younger beginners may be able to handle a fairly high speed trainer but in my experience, older beginners prefer to fly a vintage model as a first step. My favourite trainer is the Telemaster 40. My favourite ARTF trainer is the Seagull Boomerang whose semi symmetrical wing section allows the model to be flown in quite strong winds once the novice has gained some experience. My favourite vintage model for use as a basic trainer is the Radio Queen. Hi David, I totally agree with you on trainers. My new Boomerang 40 artf is still waiting for its maiden flight. I can't wait to fly it as soon as the weather picks up and I get a decent calm day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 David. What you are saying basically is that you need a model that doesn't need quick reaction times and is predictable in its handling. The question is, does your trainee want to build the model themselves, or are you talking about club models built by the members for training purposes. If it is a club model then there are plenty of plans and plan packs available, but for a newbie (oldbie ?) there is not as much choice. There is not the volume in sales for manufacturers to produce those kits cost effectively. This last year I have acquired a Telemaster and a Radio Queen. The Telemaster is extremely docile and we are going to use it as a club trainer, but the Radio Queen hasn't been flown since it was built by its previous owner. It has been converted to electric and is available at a low asking price if anybody is interested in collecting it (much too big to post !). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis 2 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Shame I no longer live in England or I would have bought the Radio Queen! Funnily enough, I flew my old Senior Telemaster yesterday afternoon for the first time in two years. Thunder Tiger 91FS up. Picture of my old Radio Queen also attached. Wish I'd never sold it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 We just acquired an EFlite apprentice for use as the club trainer. It is absolutely brilliant! And easy to fix if anything untoward happens...... Much as I am not a fan of electronic gadgetry, it certainly serves a purpose here - very low rates to start, then switch to more 'spirited' later. Again, just an opinion, but I think electric is the way to go for beginners, no need to worry about the engine, no tinkering (I know you shouldn't have to tinker....), minimal cleaning - just switch on and fly. A few who have recently learnt to fly on electric have now started using ic as well. I've found myself using my ic planes more and more......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis 2 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Yes GG, the Eflite Apprentice is a good trainer as is the ST Models Discovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cooper Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 This one is an old campaigner. . It is simply called "Trainer 90". It is very gentle, and easy to fly. I forget how many years it has been used as club trainer but it has stood the test of time. It also gets used for giving goes to youngsters (on a Buddy Box) as an introduction to R/C flying. . . . It has probably been flown by about 1000 kids over the years. It it set up on Flight Modes for "can't get it wrong" aerobatics. ? The kids then do three loops and three rolls, and then get a certificate which says they have "successfully flown a radio controlled aeroplane".... lol. . ? At big events, the models are fitted with an extra fuel tank for longer endurance. . We land them every hour to refuel them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Brian Cooper said: This one is an old campaigner. . It is simply called "Trainer 90". It is very gentle, and easy to fly. I forget how many years it has been used as club trainer but it has stood the test of time. It also gets used for giving goes to youngsters (on a Buddy Box) as an introduction to R/C flying. . . . It has probably been flown by about 1000 kids over the years. It it set up on Flight Modes for "can't get it wrong" aerobatics. ? The kids then do three loops and three rolls, and then get a certificate which says they have "successfully flown a radio controlled aeroplane".... lol. . ? At big events, the models are fitted with an extra fuel tank for longer endurance. . We land them every hour to refuel them. Thats a great looking trainer and I'm sure it flys really nice and docile. It's great to see the kids getting involved and taking an interest in the hobby. I have a large trainer plane very similar size with a Saito 72. It's a clone version of the Sig Kadet Senior called The Super Frontier Senior. Its a nice big slow flyer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 Wow! So this thread is still going! A little anecdote to help it along (I might have posted this elsewhere on here...!) A couple of years ago, I was lucky enough to get hold of a Veron Robot, in excellent condition! It even had an old (but very serviceable) OS 15 up front and a set of Futaba servos inside! The servos all checked out fine, and it test flew really well, so I used it to demonstrate my retro Grundig "reed" set, converted to 2.4 GHz, on Rudder, Elevator and Throttle. It doesn't need ailerons, and flies beautifully like that. Fast forward to last summer. A fellow club member had been trying to learn to fly on an assortment of foamies and others that had been recommended to him, and basically getting nowhere (the last one was a Bixler). I re-bound the Robot's receiver to a normal transmitter and let him have a go with it. He could not believe how easy it was to fly, compared to the "trainers" he had been sold, and within a few minutes, he was circuiting quite happily on his own - for the first time ever! Indeed we both got so carried away that I forgot how small the fuel tank was, and even at half throttle, we managed to run the tank dry, resulting in a landing in the next field over! No damage done, and the Robot continues to offer excellent service. I still haven't found a better primary trainer than this nearly 60-year old design! -- Pete 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis 2 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 On the other hand if you would like to build something with a six or eight foot wingspan, I know somebody who has the plans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Z Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Some years ago now, over 40, but I found my first trainer The Precedent Hi-Boy, a bit of a handful (read into that crashed a few times) Built a Super 60 3ch and a DB Mascot 3ch and I was suddenly flying happily on my own. Worked for me. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 I love this thread I have to say. Its great to look back and reminisce about which trainer we trained on. I have fond memories of my first trainer which was kit built back in May 1986. I have to say that I didn't build it, but a very nice man by the name of Sam McCarrol did the honours for me. It was an MFA Yamamoto with an OS 40 two stroke. Sam did a great job as he was a fantastic builder of planes. He is sadly no longer with us but his memory lives on. Even though that was the 1980s, I still love flying my trainers to this day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zflyer Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Uno Wot, Boomerang, Arising Star all good. Good two legged type, now theres a different story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Self taught on a 2 channel DB Tern. Then someone taught me how to fly properly over the sea off the Gower peninsula (slope soaring). Then got myself an early electric Goldberg Mirage to learn how to use a throttle ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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