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Where have all the GOOD trainers gone?


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DB designed Super Mascot - someone is now in the process of refurbishing this particular airframe and engine combo; I originally commenced the build in 1995 so it has lasted well!

I strengthened the horizontal stabiliser, added a carbon undercarriage and made an access hatch for the fuel tank ahead of the cockpit otherwise it was a stock model.

Big, strong and stable - and it is is still available in the traditional kit form I built up...

I quickly outgrew it but i have fond memories - particualrly of that first maiden flight....

I also practised for my B certificate on an Irvine Tutor which was fine...

Jon

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Posted by andy watson on 03/05/2013 08:15:27:

An often ignored little trainer I like is the jumper 25.

Struggles to get off grass with the recommended 25, but put a 40 into it and it's a great little plane. Slightly smaller than the similar liiking arising star- but cheaper as well.

Yes, they are excellent. We've had two on an OS 25 FSR, a great little trainer that is very good value for money.

CS

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If electric is the chosen route then how about the the E-Pioneer trainer, it flies slow when required, for lots of 'thinking time' can handle reasonable wind conditions, robust construction for those early 'arrivals' reasonable to buy, spare parts available and will keep you going after an 'A' test.

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First of all, thanks to all those who have responded! I have suggested to my fellow club member that he has a look at either the "Arising Star" or Irvine Tutor. I hadn't come across the "Arising Star" before, and my experience with film covered Chinese / Vietnamese models (I'm currently flying a "SpaceWalker" is that they are a little light and fragile for typical UK conditions. But its the right size, and seems to be highly recommended!

I was aware of the Irvine Tutor, but having no first hand experience of it, I had classed it as another "Lead-sled", as it bears a strong resemblance to the model already being flown!

As far as I can make out the "Telemaster" is no longer readily available in the UK, and in any case, I think this member might find balsa bashing a bit too much!

I had forgotten the DB Mascot! All DBs models flew superbly, so I would have no hesitation in recommending this, other than that the pilot in question almost certainly needs an ARTF!

Coming round to the other suggestions: The "Super 60" - I had one of hese back in the late 60s - initially with single channel / escapement, ending up with a Merco 35 and six channel reeds. A nice stable model, but a little "floaty". Also, as it was originally designed for single channel, the dihedral is a little excessive for multi channel control. I have built a number of half-size versions with half the dihedral, and these fly very well, but I suspect the individual in question is not up to that amount of balsa work!

This actually brings me back to the much neglected Frog Jackdaw, which was similar in size and appearance to the Super 60, but designed with multi-channel options from the start! Probably a much better model for today's equipment and conditions than the dear old Super 60! Why is it so neglected?

My personal favourite was always the Veron Robot. Compact, yet strong and stable. The perfect trainer. Why is this brilliant model no longer available? <Sigh!>

Finally, the Goldberg Falcon. OK, so in its day it was sold as an aerobatic trainer, but it still had much better flying characteristics than many of the current crop of "trainers"!

A few general observations: Tricycle undercarriages may make take-off easier, but are much more prone to damage on landing on a typical British "strip"! Give me a tail-dragger any day! Semi-symmetrical wings are less prone to "zooming" in blustery conditions typical of the UK, yet can be slowed up nicely for landings. Much better than a flat bottom section for general flying. Dihedral should be sufficient to provide positive stability, but not so much as to cause "wallowing" if the rudder is used a bit ham-fistedly (I'm thinking of the Super 60 here!).

Hmm! Perhaps I ought so sit down and design something - or at least update an older design - once my house move is over.....!

--

Pete

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  • 8 years later...
On 03/05/2013 at 09:15, andy watson said:

An often ignored little trainer I like is the jumper 25.

Struggles to get off grass with the recommended 25, but put a 40 into it and it's a great little plane. Slightly smaller than the similar liiking arising star- but cheaper as well.

I have the Seagull Jumper 25 and your right, it's a great little flyer.  I've had it now for 8 years and it's powered with a Saito 40.  

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In my opinion a trainer should be at least five feet in the wingspan so that an older beginner can see it more clearly, so a Jumper with a 40 in it is a model which some elderly beginners might have some difficulty in seeing it let alone in flying it. younger beginners may be able to handle a fairly high speed trainer but in my experience, older beginners prefer to fly a vintage model as a first step.

 

My favourite trainer is the Telemaster 40. My favourite ARTF trainer is the Seagull Boomerang whose semi symmetrical wing section allows the model to be flown in quite strong winds once the novice has gained some experience. My favourite vintage model for use as a basic trainer is the Radio Queen.

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15 minutes ago, David Davis 2 said:

In my opinion a trainer should be at least five feet in the wingspan so that an older beginner can see it more clearly, so a Jumper with a 40 in it is a model which some elderly beginners might have some difficulty in seeing it let alone in flying it. younger beginners may be able to handle a fairly high speed trainer but in my experience, older beginners prefer to fly a vintage model as a first step.

 

My favourite trainer is the Telemaster 40. My favourite ARTF trainer is the Seagull Boomerang whose semi symmetrical wing section allows the model to be flown in quite strong winds once the novice has gained some experience. My favourite vintage model for use as a basic trainer is the Radio Queen.

Hi David, I totally agree with you on trainers.  My new Boomerang 40 artf is still waiting for its maiden flight.   I can't wait to fly it as soon as the weather picks up and I get a decent calm day.  

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David.

What you are saying basically is that you need a model that doesn't need quick reaction times and is predictable in its handling.

The question is, does your trainee want to build the model themselves, or are you talking about club models built by the members for training purposes.

If it is a club model then there are plenty of plans and plan packs available, but for a newbie (oldbie ?) there is not as much choice. There is not the volume in sales for manufacturers to produce those kits cost effectively.

 

This last year I have acquired a Telemaster and a Radio Queen. The Telemaster is extremely docile and we are going to use it as a club trainer, but the Radio Queen hasn't been flown since it was built by its previous owner. It has been converted to electric and is available at a low asking price if anybody is interested in collecting it (much too big to post !).

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We just acquired an EFlite apprentice for use as the club trainer.  It is absolutely brilliant!  And easy to fix if anything untoward happens......

 

Much as I am not a fan of electronic gadgetry, it certainly serves a purpose here - very low rates to start, then switch to more 'spirited' later.  

 

Again, just an opinion, but I think electric is the way to go for beginners, no need to worry about the engine, no tinkering (I know you shouldn't have to tinker....), minimal cleaning - just switch on and fly. 

 

A few who have recently learnt to fly on electric have now started using ic as well.  I've found myself using my ic planes more and more.........

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This one is an old campaigner.  . It is simply called "Trainer 90".  It is very gentle, and easy to fly. 

I forget how many years it has been used as club trainer but it has stood the test of time. 

 

It also gets used for giving goes to youngsters (on a Buddy Box) as an introduction to R/C flying. . . . It has probably been flown by about 1000 kids over the years.  

 

It it set up on Flight Modes for "can't get it wrong" aerobatics. ?

The kids then do three loops and three rolls, and then get a certificate which says they have "successfully flown a radio controlled aeroplane".... lol. . ?

 

At big events, the models are fitted with an extra fuel tank for longer endurance. . We land them every hour to refuel them. 

 

 

Cub Camp Flying Extravaganza.jpg

Jacob and Trainer 90.jpg

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1 hour ago, Brian Cooper said:

This one is an old campaigner.  . It is simply called "Trainer 90".  It is very gentle, and easy to fly. 

I forget how many years it has been used as club trainer but it has stood the test of time. 

 

It also gets used for giving goes to youngsters (on a Buddy Box) as an introduction to R/C flying. . . . It has probably been flown by about 1000 kids over the years.  

 

It it set up on Flight Modes for "can't get it wrong" aerobatics. ?

The kids then do three loops and three rolls, and then get a certificate which says they have "successfully flown a radio controlled aeroplane".... lol. . ?

 

At big events, the models are fitted with an extra fuel tank for longer endurance. . We land them every hour to refuel them. 

 

 

Cub Camp Flying Extravaganza.jpg

Jacob and Trainer 90.jpg

Thats a great looking trainer and I'm sure it flys really nice and docile.   It's great to see the kids getting involved and taking an interest in the hobby.  I have a large trainer plane very similar size with a Saito 72.  It's a clone version of the Sig Kadet Senior called The Super Frontier Senior.  Its a nice big slow flyer.  

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Wow! So this thread is still going! A little anecdote to help it along (I might have posted this elsewhere on here...!)

 

A couple of years ago, I was lucky enough to get hold of a Veron Robot, in excellent condition! It even had an old (but very serviceable) OS 15 up front and a set of Futaba servos inside! The servos all checked out fine, and it test flew really well, so I used it to demonstrate my retro Grundig "reed" set, converted to 2.4 GHz, on Rudder, Elevator and Throttle.  It doesn't need ailerons, and flies beautifully like that.

 

Fast forward to last summer. A fellow club member had been trying to learn to fly on an assortment of foamies and others that had been recommended to him, and basically getting nowhere (the last one was a Bixler). I re-bound the Robot's receiver to a normal transmitter and let him have a go with it. He could not believe how easy it was to fly, compared to the "trainers" he had been sold, and within a few minutes, he was circuiting quite happily on his own - for the first time ever!

 

Indeed we both got so carried away that I forgot how small the fuel tank was, and even at half throttle, we managed to run the tank dry, resulting in a landing in the next field over! No damage done, and the Robot continues to offer excellent service.

 

I still haven't found a better primary trainer than this nearly 60-year old design!

 

--

Pete

 

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I love this thread I have to say.  Its great to look back and reminisce about which trainer we trained on.    I have fond memories of my first trainer which was kit built back in May 1986.  I have to say that I didn't build it, but a very nice man by the name of Sam McCarrol did the honours for me.  It was an MFA Yamamoto with an OS 40 two stroke.  Sam did a great job as he was a fantastic builder of planes.  He is sadly no longer with us but his memory lives on.   Even though that was the 1980s, I still love flying my trainers to this day.  

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