Laser 180 Petrol

[Artto Ilmanen]

@ Artto:

Hi Artto, good to hear from you too. I received both engines back from Morris a couple of months ago but have only today found time to start testing. Rather than go off-topic on Jon's thread I'll report back on my RCMF thread in due course.

Cheers for now,

Gordon

Hi Gordon,

Very nice to hear you have some time for engine testing now. I and many others lookng forward to hearing from experiences on your RCMF thread. It's going to be interesting to hear from your experiences on the new carbd with insulation material between the intake header and the carb body.

-Artto

[MattyB]

Any news on the progress of the 180 Jon? Based on the figures so far and Lasers faultless reputation I think this cold be a big seller if it is priced between the NGH and OS offerings. Also after all the debate of petrol engine silencing how does the noise compare to the glow version? Will in pass the 82dba test on the stock silencer do you think?

[Phil 9]

Posted by MattyB on 12/09/2015 11:50:10:

Any news on the progress of the 180 Jon? Based on the figures so far and Lasers faultless reputation I think this cold be a big seller if it is priced between the NGH and OS offerings. Also after all the debate of petrol engine silencing how does the noise compare to the glow version? Will in pass the 82dba test on the stock silencer do you think?

I have owned 2 saito FS petrol's and both have been quieter than the glow version with the stock silencer

[Jon H]

Hi guys.

Petrol development currently on hold while I caught up with other work. I hope to back on it very soon.

I have tested out Gordons 300v with MMM petrol conversion and while I got better performance from the engine (after some tweaks) than he did it is still far below par and not something I would be very impressed with if I had bought it. Once I am back on the r/d side I hope to work on the 180 and 300 together as one will no doubt help the other.

[Jon H]

Its been a very long time since I updated this thread as I had others running and didn't want to over crowd the forum. Since the others have closed down i will use this one for petrol only related news.

So, While I cant give a date there is progress from my end.

Those who were at wings and wheels will have seen my 155 and 180 flying about on petrol power. Those who saw the engines up close certainly seemed impressed.

I have production spec parts for almost all of it now and I really hope to have it all together before the end of the summer. I keep on at my boss to speed things up. I fear he lacks my sense of urgency. I hope to build a decent number before giving it the grand reveal to prevent out of stock issues. It would be hopeless if I only had 5 of them after all this time.

I should be able to offer 25 and 30cc engines once we go live. I have also begun testing the first V (don't ask, its going to be a while!!).

One engine is already with a customer for a 2nd opinion, I am eagerly awaiting his report as he is also giving my instruction sheet a test drive as well.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Good luck with them, hope all goes well.

[Gary Manuel]

Well here's my tupence worth.

Petrol is the future of I/C for our hobby. There are some really nice / reliable petrol engines out there at the moment. What's missing is "refinement", for those who prefer it over the raw power already available in 2 stroke engines.

I've considered buying a Saito Petrol engine and would consider buying a Laser Petrol engine. I already own an NGH38 and love it to bits, but they are not in the same league as Saito / Laser engines.

I'm following with interest.

[Ron Gray]

My names on the list for both, when they are available, hearing them and seeing them perform at W & W confirmed that the wait will be worth it.

[Ron Gray]

Jon has no jurisdiction over my own lists!

[Jon H]

Dont worry Ron. You are on my pre order list for guys willing to help out with testing so i wont forget you.

Beyond that though Tom is quite right. Back orders are thing of the past and my boss needs to up his game to give me what i need to keep things in stock.

[Alve Hansson]

Question: Will Laser 180 gas engine have needle roller bearings

on the conrod like other (except Saito) four stroke gas engine?

[Jon H]

Posted by Alve Hansson on 26/07/2018 12:13:29:

Question: Will Laser 180 gas engine have needle roller bearings

on the conrod like other (except Saito) four stroke gas engine?

No we will continue to use our standard bronze bush.

I did this for a few reasons but mostly its related to the fragility of roller bearings when it comes to their impact resistance. From time to time we do like to clip our props on the ground and this sort of impact is not good for roller bearings and can cause them to crack. Without a full strip down of the engine this damage is not apparent until the bearing breaks up and destroys the engine. A bronze bush however will take this sort of abuse without damage.

In testing i have not had any rod failures on the 180's or my 155 when running the aspen 2 pre mix fuel at 50:1. I did have a rod fail almost immediately on the 360 i tested last week but it ran perfectly after rebuild with no other changes so im leaning towards that being a random failure.

Certainly the plan at the moment is for the instructions for the singles to recommend 40:1 pump petrol and oil or the 50:1 pre mix aspen.

[Manish Chandrayan]

Will the plugs be 1/4 -32 or CM 6 size Jon?

[Jon H]

1/4x32. There is not enough space for a CM6 and it would mean a new cylinder head.

Anthing larger in future will be cm6

[Alan Hilton]

Hi Jon

Are twins going to be available again ? I would want glow rather than petrol

Alan

[Jon H]

Posted by Alan Hilton on 26/07/2018 17:45:56:

Hi Jon

Are twins going to be available again ? I would want glow rather than petrol

Alan

They will but I don't know when. I cant even keep the singles in stock due to lack of resources.

Looking forward it is likely the glow versions of the large twins will be discontinued as I expect the petrol versions to kill them if my initial testing with the 360 is anything to go by.

Give me a call tomorrow Alan if you can. I can explain the whole thing better as it would be off the topic of this thread to go deep into the whole thing here.

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 26/07/2018 20:45:06

[Jon H]

I just received the first feedback from a customer regarding our petrol engine and thought i would post it here for you guys to see.

There were some issues as you will see but we believe problem with bubbles was down to the use of a ceramic fuel filter in the tank. This seemed to have a sufficient resistance to the fuel flow to cause cavitation in the pump. I have only tested with felt filters as i need to minimise variables when testing. 

Today i have been able to finish 2 more pre production engines and updated two of my prototypes to production spec parts. I will be testing these tomorrow and i then need to send one of the parts to Bob assuming all goes well with the tests. There is now some momentum on this so fingers crossed i am close to full release. 

In any case this is the first time someone other than me has had anything to say about the engines so i will let Bob take it from here.

Hi Jon,

I just wanted to give you a bit of feedback after receiving my GA25 petrol Laser
Engine,
Well, the engine arrived all beautifully boxed up and ready to go,
I decided to bench run the engine before fitting it into my 82" De Havilland Chipmunk,
So all fitted into my test rig and ready to go,
As per the instructions I closed the choke and opened the throttle, spun the engine
over with the starter (with the ignition off) for about three seconds,
I could see the petrol moving up the inlet pipe into the pump, choke off, throttle
set to idle, ignition on, and spun it over, it fired and ran for about 5 seconds, I
did this
Procedure four times and then the engine ran, while it was running I noticed a lot
of bubbles being sucked up into the pump and also on the output side as well,
I kept on running the engine for about half an hour and it seemed ok I then stopped
it and could not get it to restart,
This is when I telephoned for help, after discussing the symptoms with Jon he came
up with a few ides (somehow there was air getting into the system) one, 
What type of clunk had I fitted, two, are all of the pipe fittings secure, three,
does the return pipe in the tank go to the bottom, etc,
I went back and went over everything, I had fitted a turbine type clunk in the tank
so I changed this to a felt one, the return pipe in the tank had somehow worked its
way round
And was exiting at the top, I rearranged this to exit in the bottom and checked the
nozzle screw, it was not properly tight I then checked and secured all the rest of
the fittings
(these were ok)
Back onto the test bench, I went through the same starting procedure as before, this
time I noticed that the fuel to the pump was being picked up straight away and with
no bubbles,
There were no bubbles in the return line either, back to the starting procedure,
ignition on throttle set to tickover and spun it over, it started and ran straight
away,
I ran it at three quarter throttle for about thirty seconds and then throttled back,
then up to full power and set the main needle, throttled back and set the slow
running,
This was as near perfect as you can get, I ran it at all settings for another half
an hour, stopped it and tried starting with a chicken stick, it started straight
away,
I am well pleased so far, I have sent you some pictures of the installation Jon to
see if you think all is ok I would be grateful for any feed back, 

Kind regards

Bob Norton

 

 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 01/08/2018 16:57:37

[Frank Skilbeck]

Sounds good, I've just acquired a 2nd hand Laser 150 to replace a DLA32cc which is too noisy for our site, I'm tempted now to wait for the 180 petrol, , hopefully it won't be too long a wait until the production versions are available.

[Jon H]

im desperate to get them out there so I really hope we are nearly there

[AndyD]

its worse than a 6 year old on xmas eve night,the engine people have been waiting for but thought would never happen.yea im the 6 year old lol

[Gordon Whitehead 1]

Hi Jon

GA25? Isn't that the petrol version of the 155, and not the 180? If so, goody!!!

Cheers

Gordon

[Jon H]

i know. Its so frustrating as i know the market is there but i am apparently unable to convince my boss of how urgently we need it done.

Assuming all runs well tomorrow i will have two engines ready for their assigned owners. I have another 4 to build after that before i have to hold fire until crankcases are manufactured. With luck the 7 engines in the wild will be flown while i wait for the cases and will reveal any additions i need to make to the instructions. After that it should be smooth sailing of nothing goes wrong.

I have tested everything i can think of but there will be small issues that crop up as Bob discovered with the ceramic clunk. Its going to be part of the learning curve and wont be an issue if they are reported to me so i can update our advice to customers as new things are discovered.

I will post a report of tomorrow's adventures.

[Manish Chandrayan]

The test pieces going out is some good news for all who have been waiting.
Regarding the ceramic clunks causing air bubbles, well! I would look elsewhere. We use ceramic, sintered and felt clunks for exactly the same reason, don't we? That these do not allow air in.
Atleast I am yet to experience any air bubbles on my petrol setups that have tanks with ceramic clunks.

Edited By Manish Chandrayan on 02/08/2018 03:11:02

[Jon H]

Posted by Manish Chandrayan on 02/08/2018 03:10:21:
The test pieces going out is some good news for all who have been waiting.
Regarding the ceramic clunks causing air bubbles, well! I would look elsewhere. We use ceramic, sintered and felt clunks for exactly the same reason, don't we? That these do not allow air in.
Atleast I am yet to experience any air bubbles on my petrol setups that have tanks with ceramic clunks.

Edited By Manish Chandrayan on 02/08/2018 03:11:02

The clunk itself didnt cause the bubbles. It just provided enough resistance to fuel flow to cause cavitation within the fuel pump. At least, this is the working theory.

Given that i only recommend felt, as i know they work, it should not be an issue as long as people read and follow the instruction sheet.

[Ron Gray]

And since when do we read instructions?😎