McG 6969 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Hello to all, As a total newbie to RC & obviously 'building', I decided to participate to the MB 2016 for a couple of reasons: trying to acquire some experience with different techniques, hoping for some assistance from the Master Builders and the Depron Gurus and, last but not least, taking part in the celebration of Peter Miller's designing career. HD has nothing to do with High Definition but simply means Hybrid Depron. Of course, I could have inverted the acronym but that was certainly offensive to the most reputable British aircraft manufacturer. Probably my 'hybrid' approach isn't supposed to be the easiest for a beginner but by being eager to use different techniques or solutions, I was tempted to give it a try. As the fuselage seems to be the heaviest part of a model, mine is to be built in 3 & 6 mm Depron around a liteply forward box structure; aft fuselage & tailplanes in CF reinforced Depron and the main wing as a conventional balsa construction, possibly with dual servos (copycatting the Master Builders after the builds get started). Power being electric with most probably a - 3S & 4S compatible - SK3 and 60A ESC. By the way, 'Bella' doesn't mean that my version will pretentiously be 'pretty' but the simple recognition of the model being very attractive. I think I even may have found a way to implement Peter's top fuselage stringers & covering into the Depron foam... Thanks for reading & have some splendid New Year's time. Chris Brussels, Belgium ps: ... please forgive my English writing as it only is my third language. Edited By McG 6969 on 30/12/2015 19:22:07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Looking forward to following along Chris CheersDanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Thank you, Danny. A long way to go, a mega-lot to learn but hopefully not too much 'rivets' for me on this one... A great New Year's Eve & a successful 2016 for you and your family. Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 All reads clearly to to me Chris, nowt wrong with thee English Look forward to your build. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 ... and, please, no - very simple - brake calipers with insulated piano wired fluid connections neither... Happy calipering Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Thank you, John. Have some great New Year's time. Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 There is always room for a few rivets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Posted by McG 6969 on 30/12/2015 18:50:55: ps: ... please forgive my English writing as it only is my third language. Edited By McG 6969 on 30/12/2015 19:22:07 Quite honestly the command of your third language is far better than may people's command of their first. I'm very impressed but I've had a lot to do with your Benelux compatriots in the Netherlands and they cope with English quite well, too. I'm quite impressed with the task you've set yourself for a first build as well and I'll be watching with interest as I struggle with my own electric conversion but in all wood. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Price 2 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 To ensure of perfection (of sorts), I prefer to concentrate on the one language myself, innit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 @ Danny If I can find some lithoplate in due time, my intention is to make a small metal frame for the windshield. If not, it will be a dummy acetate one. But in both cases, I hereby officially promise that I will try some riveting on it. Cheers Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 @ Geoff You're right, our Dutch neighbors are well known for their language skills. But please, don't ask them to pronounce some French though. Flemish people seem to possess the same ability, but Walloons (French speaking Belgians) like me originally, seem to 'suffer' a lot more with other - non Latin - languages. So, I decided to learn Dutch first... hum, strange approach here, I must admit... My first build is really going to be challenging but I think it might steep up the learning curve... at least, I do hope so. The same with 'electrics' - conversion or not - , totally new for me. To give you an idea, I've never been binding an RX so far... . Happy electrifying Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 @ Andrew ... the only reason for me to escape to other languages was when I finally encountered the obvious fact that my French would never reach perfection... . Happy escaping Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Hi Chris. I'm a total newbie to depron (in fact, not even a newbie...) so my question may sound a bit daft, but what kind of glue will you use for gluing the ply to the depron? I heard or read somewhere that depron is quite "selective" with the types of glue that it would accept. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Hi Chris, this is going to be an interesting build. I've not used Depron myself but I ahve been very impressed by the results people are getting. So I'll be watching with great interest - and one day I'll have a go with it myself! Happy New year to you and all MB'ers! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 @ AVC No daft questions, you know... only sometimes silly answers... In a very recent past (around Christmas time), I've been testing different possibilities for Depron, split over the different materials to combine with. Of course, non-solvent glues are a must. So, It seems that for: Depron to Depron > UHU Por is the winner but solvent free spray adhesives (I tested Bison) are fine to laminate large surfaces together. I will be doing my tailplanes that way. Depron to Ply > some PVA wood glue (thinned about 50%) spread over the ply and scraped away with an old gift or bank card (the type that Mr Bean used to call "My flexible friend"...). In fact, using very little of it. Then some UHU Por over the foam, wait for about 10 - 15 minutes & join them preferably with some pressure. As UHU Por is a contact adhesive, it seems more efficient to 'prepare' the adhesion to the other porous surface. I also tested some old fashion school paper glue (from Tesa) in combination with the UHU. Works very nicely as well & is slightly lighter. Depron to Balsa > same as above but a little thicker (thinned about 25%). Depron to Glass Fiber / CF > Epoxy 30 minutes preferably or foam-safe CA if the joint is not to be locally stressed. Just hope that answered your question Anyway amendments or additional tips are mostly welcome. @ BEB Thank you for visiting. I'm certainly not projecting that my results will be that 'impressive' but indeed convinced that I'll be learning a lot. I think there must be some kind of 'inversion' here... Experienced modelers asking a 'total newbie' like me for some tips about Depron. Quite funny... . Happy New Year to all of you. Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Hi to all, I read quite a lot about ‘aliphatic’ and ‘super-phatic’ glues. But could someone point me out the differences between them & how to use them, please? I believe I’ve been reading that Super-phatic is a Deluxe Materials product. Again, bad luck (the same as for finding some Depron Aero) as they are currently still looking for some distributor in Belgium, The Netherlands & Luxemburg! I found an online shop in Germany but they are out of stock… Then some distributor in France but only selling to model shops… ppfff. Should I really consider emigrating to the Channel - or the Orkney Islands? Happy aliphatic-ing Chris Brussels, Belgium Edited By McG 6969 on 02/01/2016 17:08:43 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Chris I can ask my sister. She lives in Orkney! I live in Mallorca so have a similar problem. If the local models shops don't have it in stock pretty much tough. When I visit UK which is not often enough I skip the duty free and set off with a very strange (so some) shopping list. Super-phatic is the superglue equivalent of aliphatic. ie it capillaries into gaps like soaking into a gap. I am sure it has some special ingredients over ordinary aliphatic but when stuck I dilute the ordinary with good results. I tend to "feed" a joint until it won't soak any more. To work effectively though, the joints have to be fairly good as it won't gap fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Thank you Levanter3, To be honest, I guess I would definitely prefer the Mediterranean climate. So, if I understand correctly, Super-phatic is a thin CA equivalent that you can use by capillarity while bits are already pinned to the building board? While aliphatic should more compare to Polyurethane glue (PVA) then? Could you please give me some brand names for aliphatic? Quite still confused here, I'm afraid... Happy Mallorcing Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Again Deluxe Materials brand on aliphatic Lots of English model shops stock DeLuxe glues so consider ordering some by mail with any other goods. SLEC supply Deluxe and of course all their own accessories and kits. Edited By kc on 02/01/2016 18:24:13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Thanks kc, I'll have a look at SLEC for sure, but the 'overseas postage' is almost killing down the average continental newcomer... Does the 'normal' aliphatic compares to a fast PVA glue? Happy postaging Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The "normal" aliphatic will fill small gaps and create fillets in corners whereas the PVA will shrink back and doesn't really like gaps. I too use the superphatic for wicking into joints but beware it's very thin and sometimes all the glue soaks into the balsa leaving very little on the joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Chris Just to put you right. PVA is Poly Vinyl Acetate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I was going to point that out too then didn't as I thought it was irrelevant...but to expand on Levanter's point don't confuse PVA (Poly Vinyl Acetate) with PU (Poly Urethane) which is the expanding glue usually starting as a golden brown liquid! PU adhesive is good for gap filling but when dry is not as strong as PVA or aliphatic so don't use it where you need strength! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Thank you gentlemen, Were you all that confused as well when starting your 'careers'? The darkness is still very present in my tunnel and that little light over there really seems so tiny... I have found some PVA & PU adhesives both from a Belgian industrial supplier called Soudal. The PU looks like it could be the cousin of the US brand Gorilla Glue. I think I'm starting to enjoy comparing technical specifications sheets. Concerning Aliphatic & Super-phatic, I'm now wondering if I should become the new importer of Deluxe Materials for Benelux, if I should emigrate to Mallorca to share some with Levanter3 or more simply perhaps, order some online (thinking that I just bought British Post...) & have some testing done... Happy ordering Chris Brussels, Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Bertram Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Hi Chris, Have a look at the Jivaro website, go to the plans page and scroll down to the Dusty Crophopper page. Plenty of photos and he seems to be using UHU Creative and a Sader PU outdoor wood glue which should be available in Belgian DIY stores. The site is French so you shouldn't have a problem. Will try to post a link. Sante Bob http://www.jivaro-models.org/dusty_crophopper/page_dusty_crophopper.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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