McG 6969 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hi to all, After the failure of the ‘sand’-episode, I roughly carved some scrap foam (from motor-home insulation) opening the inside for Pierre to sit in without any pressure applied. This took 3 layers - carved one after each other - and topped with a piece of Depron to achieve correct height. Tunnel view A few Duplos around the foam support with Pierre installed and kept in position by a few pins. The broken internal plug was glued back together, latexed again & in position for the next PU-battle… Hoping for the best now. Cheers Chris BRU – BE / CTR PU Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hi to all, I've been posting this elsewhere but thought it could be helpful here as well. Regarding every possible 'units' conversion, I'm using this tool for years now. It's a stand-alone (no install needed) converter for PC. It features 22 different categories (distance, mass, surface, density, etc.) Just make your choice of unit input (ex. kilowatt) and unit output (ex. pound-feet/minute), type in the digit to be calculated... et voila. You can even ad your own parameters/units if you feel it 'incomplete'. Anyone interested can PM me his mail-address & I'll forward it with pleasure. Happy calculating Chris BRU - BE / CTR Conversion Control Edited By McG 6969 on 07/01/2016 18:05:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i12fly Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 My goodness BEB you can certainly get through the chocks -2 big tubs of Celebration?!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Those look great experiments. I have a different problem. the Amazon vine program gave me a Dremel Idea builder for review. These are a couple tof pilots that I made with it, Now I need to find someone who can produce a 3D scan of ME so I can fill my cockpits with ME. But then, I am conceited!! Oh yers, I live in South West Suffolk Edited By Peter Miller on 07/01/2016 18:27:06 Edited By Peter Miller on 07/01/2016 18:28:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hi Peter, Well, I thought you were a celebrated traditional designer/builder... And now, I see yourself bathing in pure Hi-Tech waters... Very convincing subjects by the way but I can't help you out of it really... What about asking to review a 3D-scanner from them? ... being able then to create an army of PM-PICs... (must love those acronyms) Happy scanning Chris BRU - BE / CTR 3D Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Always happy to play with Hi-Tech when it is free.. Unfortunately one can only have what one is offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Very interesting experiments Chris - watching with interest! BEB i12fly - I blame Mrs BEB for the choc munching! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 In my hurry to try to master some PU casting, I - very disrespectful - forgot to introduce my new building assistant. I may now officially repair this omission by introducing Gaston. Gaston Lagaffe is a gag-a-day comic strip created in 1957 by Belgian cartoonist André Franquin and published in the Belgian comics magazine Spirou. The series focuses on the everyday life of Gaston Lagaffe (whose surname means "the blunder" or "the blooper", a lazy and accident-prone junior office assistant. He has an almost supernatural ability to cause disasters and to create various ‘machines’ all with uniformly catastrophic results. Maybe not as worldwide renowned as Tintin, Gaston is very popular in large parts of Europe and has been translated in over a dozen languages. Some cartoons were translated in English but there doesn’t seem to be an officially published version. Now let’s hope for the best with him at my side… Happy blundering Chris BRU – BE / CTR Lagaffe Control Edited By McG 6969 on 08/01/2016 12:00:54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi everybody, The last PU-battle went quite OK - but following Danny’s advice - I decided to give the ‘rotation moulding’ a try. It’s also used by famous Belgian ‘chocolatiers’ to make their Saint Nicolas or Manneken Pis figurines up to 60cm height. But then, they also are professionally equipped & experienced… I used my precedent foam set-up just covered with some transparent (allows me to cheat & have a look) acetate sheet pinned to the foam & sellotape-edged all around. Filled up with about 1/3 of the original amount of PU and slowly rotated (to minimize bubble formation) during a few minutes. Result > my best looking Pierre so far, the ‘walls’ could be a lot thinner but I used a bit too much PU & it was curing too fast (the PU’s shelf life has been too extended also, I’m afraid). ‘Rota’ Pierre comes out at 32gr, but a little inside Dremeling would ‘slim’ him easily to about 25gr. I don’t really know if that’s OK though. A family portrait w/ from left to right: Gaston, Polymer Pierre, Gravity Pierre, Rota Pierre & Plug Pierre (primed). I’m really surprised that grey priming the PU-figurines brings up so many details… and imperfections. Happy priming Chris BRU – BE / CTR PU Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Chris, in another thread you asked " As a beginner, I'm considering using a 3 & 4S compatible motor (lighter than BEB's powerplant) and starting out with a 'sedative' 3S. So I must try to remain as 'flexible' as possible in my approach and if I make a motor mount at 40-50mm in front of F1 & a cutout in F1 for the Lipo in 3S, there would be plenty of room to bring the battery backwards for 4S... " Nobody else commented so I will answer here as it keeps it all together. My view is that 4S is more suited to this model as with 3S the amps would be higher. If you want to reduce the power then just a smaller prop will do that easily on 4S.. So no point in trying to make the model suit different lipos. Whether the model needs provision to allow the lipo to go forward of the standard F1 position is not yet known! I have built my model with F1 moved well forward but this involved a lot of redesigning of the front end. It may not have been worth all the effort involved. It is so much easier to build the model to the original design! It might be much easier to follow BEB's version and use a similar motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I think Chris is in a different place than me though. I'm no expert at all with regard to Depron, but my expectation would be that his model will be somewhat lighter than mine. Bear in mind I am already somewhere around 150W/lb, if Chris puts my motor in a Depron model he could end up at over 200W/lb - and even by my standards that's "crazy territory"! I think Chris should just continue his build as he is planning, he has made the provision to go through F1 if he needs to and so has given himself lots of adjustment scope for the battery position. If he doesn't need to go through the hole he has in F1 - then, as I think he said earlier, he just has some extra cooling! Either way it will be fine. BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/01/2016 16:52:48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi kc, Thank you for your reaction & comments as indeed I didn't get any feedback. I'm convinced of the fact that the Ballerina will be more 'alive' on 4S but maybe that is what I'm trying to avoid on 3S. Of course you have a point concerning reducing prop and/or pitch to 'sedate' a bit. I bought a Turnigy SK3-3542-800kv (ID: 9192000253-0) compatible on both 3S & 4S (134gr). So, no problem there, I guess. I won't certainly tell neither if the provision of modifying F1 is needed, hence my point of being 'flexible'. Also, please remember that my version will be 'hybrid' with Depron fuselage & tailplanes (but classic main wing as per plan). So, I need to adapt/redraw quite a few things anyway. Taking some 'insurance' by modifying F1 with a motor mount in front (+ short studdings) isn't the most complicated of it. I totally agree that building the model to the original design is a lot easier. But I guess going 'hybrid' is also part of my challenge. I intend to post a detailed description of my building procedure here shortly, so please pay me a visit and I'll be welcoming your comments. Thanks again for your reaction. Happy pondering Chris BRU - BE / CTR Design Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi BEB, I'm certainly not an expert at all concerning Depron but I do realize that some calculations offered by other experienced builders will not necessary be applicable to mine. That's why I'm trying to have some possible installation latitude. Approaching 200W/lb would certainly bring this newbie in 'hooligan territory'... As per your suggestion, I'll build as planned. And if it gets close to a total disaster, I'll just start again. It's only a bit of wood & Depron & I have to practice the scrollsaw anyway. Thank you, BEB Cheers Chris BRU - BE / CTR Planning Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Another Gaston (Guust) afficionado! This is him piloting my "AtomSpecial" autogyro (with disastrous results, as usual). Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 He don't seem too upset by it though Max John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi Max, Thank you for visiting. Great to meet another afficionado. Some of his cartoons really brought me to laughing tears. I knew Gaston was translated in Dutch becoming 'Guust Flater'. That Wiggo model really looks 'special', quite impressive. Did you designed it? Mvg Chris BRU - BE / CTR Fanclub Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi John, I'm afraid the word 'upset' doesn't even exist in Gaston's dictionnary... Do you know Gaston's cartoons? Cheers Chris BRU - BE / CTR Upset Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hi to all, Here are some ‘projected’ intentions for the build of the Bella Ballerina Hybrid Depron. As a beginner, I'm considering using a 3 & 4S compatible motor (lighter and not so powerful than BEB's power-plant) and starting out with a 'sedative' 3S. So I must try to remain as 'flexible' as possible in my approach and if I make a motor mount at 40-50mm in front of F1 & a cutout in F1 for the Lipo in 3S, there would also be plenty of room to bring the battery backwards for 4S later... FUSELAGE Concerning the forward section, I (finally, thanks to BEB & kc) decided I will be making a 3mm ply battery box/motor mount running from ‘F0’ (let’s call that the ‘new’ motor bulkhead in laminated cross-grain 3mm ply = 6mm) about 40-45mm in front of F1 (itself reduced to 3mm thickness) through to F4 (w/ plenty of space then – hopefully - to adjust the CG even for 3S). The fuselage narrows forwards to F1 so my ‘new’ F0 will not be full width - being some kind of box-mount with short M3 (M4?) studding for the motor (Danny Fenton likes that mounting type, apparently) - and F1 & F2 will have a central square cut-out in them to install the battery floor. Access will be via a top-hatch running from F1 to F5 (including the cockpit area). The cowl is intended to be made in glass fibre sliding in from the front over the motor-box & fixation at F1 w/ dowels & magnets. Fuselage sides & aft-part of the fuselage will be all (mainly) Depron. As the plan uses 3mm sheeting, I will be using 3mm Depron for the fuselage and will have to reduce the rear formers by 3mm over the top (as to allow a 3mm rounded Depron sheeting to the top-aft formers & to make room for some "dummy" 3x3mm balsa stringers on top of it). I would really like to reproduce Peter's covered fuselage-aft top deck for 'aesthetic' reasons. Since the strength of the front 'box' is taking the primary loads, I don’t think I really need the sides of the fuse in 6mm Depron. I believe some ‘vinyl film’-laminated 3mm should do the job. For the aft fuselage, I was imagining to prolong the structure of the front ply-box with a vertically placed CF flat strip (6 x 1 mm, on each side) - starting at F4 down to the fuselage tail & glued at the height of the lateral thrust line. Once pulled together at the tail, this will form a smooth fuselage lateral shape and will be filled in with a flat 6mm Depron ‘slightly rounded’ horizontal triangle. Half-formers F7 to F10 will then be glued to the top & bottom of that Depron ‘triangle’. The bottom of the fuselage could then be made in 6mm for 'gravity arrivals' (at least from the front down to the main wing LE). More to come... Please, comments or remarks surely welcomed. Cheers Chris BRU – BE / CTR Engineering Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 (continued) TAILPLANES Fin, rudder, stab & elevator are intended to be a 2-layer lamination of 3mm Depron reinforced by 2mm CF rods in between. Also small sandwiched acetate (or styrene) reinforcement plates at the control horns locations. I know the plan is showing a tail skid but I’m intended to go for a tail wheel as per Peter’s prototype. MAIN WING The wing will be ‘classical’ balsa/ply construction as per plan but probably w/ dual servos (if I can’t master some silver piano wire soldering in the meantime). The main u/c will be as per plan as well. As this will be the latest step of the building, I’m hoping for a lot of help from the Balsa Masters in due time… POWER / SERVOS Motor > Turnigy SK3-3542 800kv ESC > Plush 60A Servos > Corona 929MG / 2.2kg / 0.10sec / 13g or Emax ES3103 / 3.0kg / 0.12sec / 17g Battery > ‘sedative’ 3S to start / 4S 3300mAh later on Again please, comments or remarks surely welcomed. Cheers Chris BRU – BE / CTR Engineering02 Control Edited By McG 6969 on 10/01/2016 18:05:03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Sounds like a plan to me Chris. There is always a limit to how well you can specify exactly how you are going to do things way in advance - I'm a committed "fudger"! - but you do need to have at least an outline plan! Yours sounds good to me. Re the cowl: you say you intend to hold this in place with dowel and magnet. Will that be strong enough do you think? There is a lot of air flow in that region and significant aerodynamic forces. Might be OK, just a thought. Maybe go with the dowel/magnet idea but don't implement it in such a way that you "burn your boats" on changing it if you need to. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi Chris As BEB says, you definitely have a plan (unlike me that mainly "play by ear"...), and a good one in my opinion. I'm curious as to what will be your final weight, to see how it is compared to the glow versions. BTW, your work with the pilot is great! Regarding servos in the wing, I will go for two separate servos, mainly to help of the adjustment. If this is finally your choice, try and find some good mini servos, (around 20 gr) with metallic gear. The Hitec HS225MG sounds ideal to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi BEB, Thanks for reading & for your help again. If I understand the definition of "fudger" well , could I translate it with the word 'detailist' (as with painting your pilots, maybe?)??? Regarding the cowl (far away in time, I'm afraid), the intention is to glue a 'twin F1' into the glass fibre cowl, with a square cut out for the motor mount and slide it from the front to his 'brother'. So, the 'support' should come from the ply motor mount, helped by 2 dowels & magnets. Of course if I'm wrong (again) , by getting the glass cowl over F1, a few tapping screws could preserve my (non-existent) reputation. Cheers, BEB Chris BRU - BE / CTR Cowling & Burning Boats Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi AVC, Thanks for reading. Believe me, I'm curious about my final weight as well. Not even a clue! The Corona Metal Gear (@ 13gr) seems to be very reliable & used by fixed wing FPV people with frames up to 3,5kg. But, I'll certainly have a check at the Hitec HS 225MG . Thanks. Cheers Chris BRU - BE / CTR Servo Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi to all, As I was a bit ‘building-thinking’-lazy yesterday (and today), I did a bit of history research and I thought I could share the results of it… The original History of the Bella Ballerina In the early 30’s, Ottone Mastroianni was a wood importer & distributor in Torino, Italy. As a passionate of light aviation - with already a pilot licence since the 20’s - he quickly felt the need for Scandinavian & Canadian aircraft grade wood quality and started the import of both, even developing his own steamed plywood laminating system for the emerging aero market. Through his youngest son Ruggero – later to become a highly regarded film editor and almost as aviation addicted as his father - he came in contact with Petr Millaricz, a Polish designer working for Beneš-Mráz, an aircraft manufacturer in Czechoslovakia where he designed the BE-50 Beta-Minor. The BE-50 was a low-wing cantilever monoplane of wooden construction, with tandem open cockpits and fixed undercarriage & tailwheel. The aircraft proved popular with Czechoslovakia's aero-clubs and was successful in international competitions. Five years later - in March 1937 - with hostilities approaching, Petr had to migrate to Italy and was hired by Mastroianni Senior to design their own light aircraft at his production plant in Caselle Torinese, near Torino. In three weeks time, Ottone even managed to create his private airstrip near his factory. As Ottone’s mistress at that time was a Commedia dell’Arte dancer, the project’s name was found quickly: the ‘Ballerina’ was born. (to be continued) Chris BRU - BE / CTR History #1 Control Edited By McG 6969 on 11/01/2016 19:26:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Thomas Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Great bit of historic info there mcg. 👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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