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John's Ballerina Build


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Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 07/01/2016 20:40:59:

Interestingly you are building the wing the way I would. With it "packed up" in key places, then add the le sheeting after removing from the board.

I notice that Peter suggests a slightly different approach - he puts the le sheeting down first, then adds the spars etc and finally the ribs. If I understand correctly he then glues the sheeting up onto the ribs while the assembly is still on the board. (Please feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood that Peter!). So the sheeting is effectively his packing during assembly.

Pondering now, whether to stick with what I know - ie the way you have done it - or branch out and try something new!

BEB

I never lift the wing until all the sheet is on and the webs. No warps are possible with this system

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I have built wings as Peter suggests, adding rib capping in some cases under the ribs as well. It works very well. If you can close the leading edge D box before lifting from the board you really shouldn't be able to warp the wing.

Give it a go BEB, despite not being your normal way, it does work really well 

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 07/01/2016 22:18:54

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There is always more than one way to skin a cat - never more so than in aeromodelling!

One thing the MB always shows is this multiple approach - and each one works for the person concerned. New builders really have to "pay their money and take their choice" - and old builders like me have to sometimes consider trying something new!smile

BEB

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On the wing building topic, I always make mines on John and BEB's way. For the Ballerina though, I'll give a try to PM's method, I think it's easy and it works better than mine.

Another thing that I've noticed in PM's designs is that the spar webs are added in front of the spar, whereas I always placed them behind. I though that this was just a matter of preference, but I was reading yesterday the building article of the Jezebel, and he explained there that doing it this way, you then have space for placing the pegs to hold the upper sheeting, which makes also a lot of sense, so I will try this as well for the Ballerina.

Definitely the MB is a good way of learning from everybody! thumbs up

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I just like my way but if other people prefer their way, that is fine too.

Yes, I like to clamp the sheet down to the spar, much easier than dozens of pins being pushed into a rock hard spar.

I use map pins at the leading edge because that wood is much softer and the pins a re short so go right home and the heads hold the sheet down

Only snag is that sometimes the heads come off and youhave to get the pin out of the wood.

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Paul, I normally use the pins method, but as you say, it means you have a lot of pins trough the sheet and down to the hard spar, and also that you end with lots of holes in the sheet. So I'll try the peg method this time.

I use normal sewing pins, but they are a pain to place or remove them with the fingers, so in most cases I use a hammer to place them (which is a different type of pain because you have to be very careful to not bend the pins...) and pliers to remove

On a different, more general, topic, I'd like to mention that for me it's a new experience to have the possibility to ask the designer about the model I'm building. I find the experience very interesting, and definitely will help me to improve. So thanks Peter, and thanks modelflying.co.uk !!

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Posted by Peter Miller on 08/01/2016 08:10:43:

I use map pins at the leading edge because that wood is much softer and the pins a re short so go right home and the heads hold the sheet down

Only snag is that sometimes the heads come off and youhave to get the pin out of the wood.

I use map pins, the ones with the plastic round heads, a lot. But I did have one bad experience with them. I was sheeting a warbird fuselage - so lots of pins and it was a new pack. When it came to getting them out, no matter what way or how carefully I tried, the head came off every single one! It took me ages to get the pins out. Obviously it was just a bad batch of pins - but under the circumstances I could hardly take them back - I don't think WHS would have has much truck with my view that "of course I should be able to stick them through two layers of wood right through a glue joint upto the head and pull them out again"!

But I still use that type of pin and most of the time you only get the odd one that "looses its head"!

BEB

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I bought some cheaper ones and they were terrible

I have bought some much larger ones with a sort of capstan shaped head and they never come off but the actual pin is much thicker. If you buy the clear ones you can see that it is a complete tack with head inside the head.

I buy them onEBay. I also buy T headed pins there including larger than average ones.

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I have to say Peter's wing building sequence worked really well on the Swamp Rat. I will use it again.

It may be worth saving all the offcuts of rib balsa to use as wedges when gluing the underside LE.

I always screw the spar down using little wooden clips with woodscrews into the board. (plasterboard) Works a treat as long as you remember to locate the screws where they can be unscrewed later.

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You could spend five minutes and make some of these clips and forget about bent pins

Spar Fixing

just glue a strip of ply of spar thickness plus sheeting thickness to a slightly wider strip of 3mm ply, when the glue is dry drill holes and cut off into individual clips.

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Perhaps I didn't explain properly that those clips are to hold the lower spar down to the board. They hold it down firmly. Pins tend to lift out when you press down somewhere else!

They are not a substitute for other clips or pegs.

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