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Do you think some sort of registration system would protect the hobby from rogue flyers?


Beth Ashby Moderator
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Concerns have been raised in recent threads and action has already been taken in USA and Eire. We know the EASA discussion process is under way in Europe and their proposals are due this Spring.

What do you think would be acceptable, if changes to the status quo are proposed....

Edited By David Ashby - RCME on 11/02/2016 07:00:22

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If there should have to be some kind of registration then membership of the BMFA is already halfway there. To insist that all models carry the member's number does not seem unreasonable. Registration of all models individually, as I believe the Americans want would be ludicrous.

Of course, once again it would be the responsible people who have to put up with the inconvenience, while the mischief-makers carry on as they wish, but that is what happens with most regulation.

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Posted by Beth Ashby Moderator on 10/02/2016 21:39:18:

Concerns have been raised in recent threads and action has already been taken in USA and Eire. We know the EASA process is under way here and a result is due in spring.

The forum would like to get a feeling for what the average modeller here would find acceptable, if changes to the status quo have to be made.

Discuss your opinions here...

Edited By Beth Ashby Moderator on 10/02/2016 21:41:3

The poll and your post are different. You state in the post you would like to find what people would find acceptable but the poll is for something else. Someone may agree to some simple registration even though their belief is it will not make any difference.

Personally, I do not believe registration will stop the rogue fliers, does legislation and jail stop knife crime.

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No. Complete waste of time. Rogue flyers/ terrorists etc. will not register, so what would be the point of having a registration number on the aircraft, it would serve no useful purpose apart from keeping the eurocrats in Cologne (EASA) happy. Model flying in the UK has a very good safety record as the CAA know. Lets hope that the political mantra of 'something must be done' coming from across the pond, Ireland and Europe manifest itself as some form of registration over here.

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With the idiots only prosecution is liable to make a difference, I don't believe for a second they are unaware of the fact they're breaking the law.

I'll accept whatever gets us out of this mess relatively unscathed, not much we can do about it, names numbers in models ? fair enough I suppose, means committee will have to start checking all models for it before they're flown then ?

Is there a good solution ? I've not read it yet.

John

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I think the point it that while its true that the rogue flyers will not register that very fact automatically, and very obviously, differentiates them from us. We become the "acceptable face" of model flying (which we know we already are of course) and they become the 'villians'. We don't get tarred with the brush intended for them! The baddies won't be able to hide amongst us anymore - if a model without registration is spotted or a flyer can't produce their personal registration then they can't just say "Me? I'm just an innocent hobbyist".

Also, while again I agree that many of the rogue flyers know they are breaking the law I also think there is a substantial group that don't. They are ignorant of the requirements. The public profile of having to register, and there being a duty on retaillers to inform people of that, would I think be good for awareness raising. And possibly even the esteem with which the hobby is held by the general public - "it must be a serious activity, you have to register".

Don't get me wrong - if we can get away without any registration, fine. I'm not an enthusiast for it. But if something is going to be put in place then this might be the "something" that is least disruptive and most beneficial to us in terms of showing the political types that our house is in order and putting wide expanses of clear space between us and bad boys.

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/02/2016 23:29:55

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No, no no. Far too much registration of everything, so please, no more authoritarian bureaucratic interference in private recreations. I come from the shooting world - very heavily regulated and registered, to little effect. When my grandparents were young, there was virtually no impediment to owning whatever guns you liked, without registration - gun ownership was far more widespread, and gun crime was considerably less common than it is now. But once it was introduced (for specious, improbable reasons) it grew and grew, as these things do. If registration of model aircraft or their owners were to be introduced, I guarantee it would not stop there: over the years, restrictions would grow more and more onerous. It's the way things work.

Very bad idea - don't even think about it, let alone promote it.

rgds Tony

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I don't honestly believe it will make any difference to those most likely to do the hobby harm or improve safety, but if it keeps us from more extensive and onerous regulation then I would support registration of pilots either via the BMFA/SAA or directly with the authorities. I would not be happy with the public disclosure of that information though, as it will be in the US.

Edited By MattyB on 10/02/2016 23:38:55

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I don't see how what I do today would benefit anyone if I had to register before I could continue to do it tomorrow. Like thousands of others I've been quietly getting on with model flying/building and any registration would just be inconvenience to all of us and would gain.....?

See a model flying and want to know who is flying it? Not difficult is it?

So I agree, registration would be another case of the majority having to suffer because of an irresponsible minority.

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I don't see the point of registration. This is something that the US has been debating for months now and the same arguments against registration are valid here. Like others have said it’s the reckless few that will ignore the rules, ignorant or not. I don't think we can entirely blame the CAA or EASA for this storm and is down to the media. They started to highlight the less than good flying and then branded them as drones. Now it seems we all fly drones and not just the RAF. So the tar brush has already been slapped on all of us.

The recent article in the BMFA news (you know, that thing you usually put straight in the bin) page 6. Seems to indicate that the EASA are not interested in getting involved with the control of RC flying in the UK and are leaving it to the CAA which in turn are happy with how the BMFA are managing RC flying. This also seemed to be the case in the December CAA / BMFA meeting minutes. That they see no issue with how were doing things now and see no reason to change.

From the recent Mill Hill incident report it appears that regular civil pilots are more reckless than us and they are registered! My interpretation of the report shows that the pilot had no idea of his altitude and also failed to research local airfield information about recommended approach patterns and the mention of RC gliding at that point. If you take some of the altitudes in the report and do some maths the pilot was barley 100ft of the deck. Sounds like showboating to me.

Hypothetically if we did end up with some sort of pilot registration like the FAA, who is going to enforce it? The CAA probably doesn’t have time or resources to do it and not everybody is a member of a club. As a ‘country’ flyer I have no desire to get caught up in the politics of a club.

Right I’ll put my soap box to bed now.

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To reiterate some of the comments above there is no benefit in introducing another form of registration. Responsible modellers are already registered via the BMFA or similar and the ignorant or lunatic fringe would never bother. Sure, we could put our membership numbers on our models as we did with our SMAE numbers back in the 60's but that's as far as we need to go.

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It would not prevent the Lunatic Fringe doing what they wish!

Speeding, mobile phone used whilst driving, drinking & driving etc. All done despite the existing laws.

The main point is, if they cannot respect those laws, and they are almost unenforceable, who is going to enforce registration and compliance? Certainly not the police, who have difficulties enforcing the laws on the statue book currently!!

Edited By Ron Harrison on 11/02/2016 08:38:43

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There are always a few who spoil things for the majority and we just have to learn to live with it with the minimum of disruption. I could support a system in which there was compulsory registration of pilots ( Possibly BMFA membership?) and it would be obligatory to have the pilot's registration number on all his models, including drones. Before a retailer could sell a drone or any other RTF aerodyne he would have to see proof of, and take details of, the pilots registration. To take account of the "toy trade", perhaps there could be exemptions for models/drones below a certain (very low) weight or size. Yes, it would be a pain but there are similar registration schemes for guns and even mobile phones in many countries.........

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Cars are registered, They have to be MOTed and Insured and taxed..

How many uninsured drivers are there out there?

With a major, large thing like a car and the very heavy penalties for not complying with the law many yobs still break the laws.

Does anyone really believe that the average idiot who probably has a legal car will bother to obey the registration rules.

NO CHANCE

Oh and with the number of drivers happily using mobile phones on the move and not getting caught what chance have the rogue model pilots of being caught, let alone prosecuted.

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I think this is not about registering the people, or the drone or whatever lunatic idea they have in the USA. Their registration is for everyone, even existing AMA members! It provides no insurance and really serves no purpose.

From my point of view, i would look at the registration requirement here only as a way of making sure the proper information about the safe operation of a model is placed in the hands of whoever has just bought it as the BMFA would send them said information once they joined.

While there will always be the minority that think it is funny to hover over the threshold of heathrow's runways or think its clever to hover over the cup final to get a free view, i agree with BEB and think many of the alleged issues are related to people genuinely not knowing the score. If you asked any non flyer if model aircraft were governed by the same rules as full size i doubt they would say yes because to them a model aircraft is a little toy, like an electric RC car. They are both available at maplins or argos and are in the toy section, so surely they are toys? They forget that models also include 20 foot monstrosities with engines big enough for a light aircraft.

if we assume all of us flying regularly in clubs are 'enthusiasts' and we have the full whack enthusiast grade insurance/membership, is there scope for another level of insurance/membership? Not in terms of the insurance coverage as its all needed, but if there was some sort of entry level membership that covers people who only fly whatever they have from argos (perhaps a size/type restriction is needed too?) very infrequently and only costs about 20 quid for a chap and his kids. They would then receive all of the literature they need, and would be encouraged to join a club and move on to bigger and better things. It could be aimed solely at the outdoor 'toy' drone fliers (indoor flying is not a problem) and might be helpful. Clearly the specific details need to be carefully considered, but i can see positives to it and while some may not register they then have no leg to stand on if they are busted doing something stupid.

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No benefit whatsoever in registration because the "bad boys" will not register anyway and I emailed my MP to tell her so.

Six weeks later I got a badly laid out letter thanking me for my letter (sic), from the tone and contents of which I gather that she has totally missed the point that I was making and saying that she has written to Lord Ahmad, Parliamentary Under secretary of State at the Department of Transport asking him to look into the matter.

I am not hopeful of a satisfactory outcome.

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I am chairman of the West Wales 4x4 Group,a RAC REGISTERED motor sports club, but we get grief when some idiot goes and rips up a local nature reserve.

Also agree with Tony Harrison's post above with regards the shooting world.

As other have said any further registration will be a waist.

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I personally would not object to Pilot Registration (though categorically NOT at individual model level) - IF there were some practical reason to it..... but I cant see that in the US or Irish systems

If some way of having to provide Pilots Registration and Proof of Insurance when buy a model could be devised then great, it would have a purpose, but I fear it would be virtually impossible to enforce at the point of purchase.

I would much rather see it become a legal requirement to have 3rd Party Insurance for any flying outdoors - though again how would it be enforced?


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Who is going to monitor things anyway?

Speaking to a friend last night on the 'phone, he said that he'd recently spotted a "large grey drone" hovering at about 100ft in the park where he was walking his dog. The machine accelerated quickly upwards to a point that took it out of sight and hearing, but it reappeared several minutes later.

Descending, the machine made its way low over some nearby houses and eventually disappeared - presumably to land.

There was nobody else around, so the machine was almost certainly being flown from someone's garden and given the flight observed by my friend, was contrary to the regs.

How would registration stop this?

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