Rich too Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Registration is an absurd idea. Regulate fpv drones, etc, but leave the rest of the hobby alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Posted by Rich2 on 20/04/2016 18:50:03: Registration is an absurd idea. Regulate fpv drones, etc, but leave the rest of the hobby alone. Regulate FPV drones but leave everyone else alone? Why? What difference is an off the shelf FPV multi rotor to a Wot trainer with a camera stuck on top? Or just a Wot trainer that I decide can scoot around Downing Street for a laugh? Surely the danger it isn't down to what you're flying and what's on board but rather how you're flying it? Edited By John F on 20/04/2016 19:20:02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 FPV multi rotor to a Wot trainer with a camera stuck on top? Or just a Wot trainer that I decide can scoot around Downing Street for a laugh? the correct spelling, in this context is 'larf'. Best be accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Posted by John F on 20/04/2016 19:19:43: Posted by Rich2 on 20/04/2016 18:50:03: Registration is an absurd idea. Regulate fpv drones, etc, but leave the rest of the hobby alone. Regulate FPV drones but leave everyone else alone? Why? What difference is an off the shelf FPV multi rotor to a Wot trainer with a camera stuck on top? Or just a Wot trainer that I decide can scoot around Downing Street for a laugh? Surely the danger it isn't down to what you're flying and what's on board but rather how you're flying it? Edited By John F on 20/04/2016 19:20:02 John, are you serious? You cannot see the difference? Where exactly would you take off from to "scoot around Downing Street"? They are completely different animals. We had a FPV multi-rotor hovering over our back garden recently, I can't for the life of me remember the last time I saw a radio control aircraft taking pictures of my back garden...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I've not read every post on this thread but most of us are already registered, with one or more of the national associations and most are also registered with known and formalised clubs. As others have said, this issue has arisen in the last 3 or 4 years since MR have become mainstream. I'd be amazed if all the reports of MR causing trouble and airprox etc had anything what so ever to do with model flying clubs, national associations or their members. I'd also be amazed if the culprits had even seen a model aircraft, as most seem to me to be computer types who like to mess about with programming or photographers who like to mess about with flying computers. The CAA will know the locations of all the alleged reports of incidents and will plot their locations. The location of most model flying sites are known. Therefore compare the two and find that aeromodelling is not the cause of the issue. People are using MR rather than a Wot trainer with a camera because MR can be operated from tighter locations, they have the technology to get themselves out of trouble and can be flown by a complete beginner and they require no skill in assembly and that is the difference and that is why only now are we seeing an issue. Twenty years ago I sued to fly a plane with a camera on it, cameras in model planes are nothing new, but the technology has changed to enable anyone, with no skill to fly them from anywhere. Coming back to the OP, we are already registered and nothing more needs to be done, other than perhaps to say that everyone needs an A or B to fly anything at all, but that doesn't reduce risk and still comes down to enforcement, as everyone needs a driving licence to drive a car....we've all seen Police Interceptors.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 That's no different to a helicopter. MR's are the not the problem, FPV is the problem. I'm a country flyer, I don't belong to a club, and I don't have A or B certs - and I don't intend to get one! Other than that I agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 No-one is saying you have to be in a club, but you are registered. I agree that FPV is the problem. I also accept that having an A or a B doesn't mean a great deal. I've been to many shows and fly-ins and seen some of the awful flying from some of the 'best' with all their tickets. It may be that some form of flying certification or designated flying sites only type arrangement is required in coming years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Fledermaus Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Out of interest, does anyone know what the law would say if you brought an MR which was hovering over your property by some means, say with an air rifle, or even by throwing rocks at it, or better with your own Kamacazi drone., would you get your collar felt by the local constabulary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Professional UAV pilots only need an 'A' cert. plus attending one of the day long training courses (or a UK CPL or ATPL), so a CAA approved flying certificate/licence for model pilots seems rather OTT to me. (I know that they also need an approved Opps manual and an AOC) Also, regarding 'designated flying sites only', they would need planning permission and therefore change of use. Whilst some clubs may have that, I wonder how many out of the 600 or so BMFA affiliated MFC do? I would guess that most clubs have an informal arrangements with land owners and trying to get 'designated flying site status' problematical. Neither of these things are likely to promote the hobby, to say the least. Also neither of these things will make things safer or stop a tiny minority of people with too much money to waste on an RTF 'drone' and too little brain to act responsibly or legally with it. The fact that model pilots are licenced/registered/responsible/skilled/legal, really will not 'cut it' with the public. It is public opinion and the media that drives political decisions, or so it seems sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Dai Fledermaus, that would constitute 'endangering an aircraft' which, as you know is in breach of the ANO and is a criminal offence (it might be a bit hazardous too). However I am not sure what weight constitutes an aircraft, 7kg, 20kg? Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich too Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Posted by Dai Fledermaus on 21/04/2016 10:34:37: Out of interest, does anyone know what the law would say if you brought an MR which was hovering over your property by some means, say with an air rifle, or even by throwing rocks at it, or better with your own Kamacazi drone., would you get your collar felt by the local constabulary? Someone told me there was a case recently where the homeowner was found perfectly within his rights to bring one down for hovering over his property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke 4 Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Ever since the Chinese economy aimed itself at the "TOY MARKET" it has produced many and various R/C toys for quite literally TOY prices, These include "FOAMIES" which come ready for flight after simple? assembly, So Dad buys a 4 Engined B 17 for his 8 year old and young Johnnie fly's it into the windshield of a passing bus direct from the front lawn, "REGISTERED" of course not, Never even heard about such a thing. And that is why it will not have any relevance in Model flying. Shaun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 They're all TOY ones....always have been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Just been advised that the FAA has been told that their registration rules for drones and model aircraft cannot be used. **LINK** THis was overgturned by the Fedral Appeals Court Edited By Peter Miller on 20/05/2017 08:18:30 Edited By Peter Miller on 20/05/2017 08:19:28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 you are breaking the (law) if you are in control of a car and using a mobile phone......we all see it every day......very hard to enforce for the boys in blue,and I imagine the same will apply to any rules that are brought out re...UAV's and M/R's .......... shutting the gate when all the horses have escaped etc comes to mind... but certain authorities will have to be seen to do something and I think whatever is decided it will effect ALL of us not just a minority ken Anderson...... ne....1 too late dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 What does converted mean on the poll?There are hundreds of thousands of model aircraft in existence in the UK. Many change hands frequently, many are shelved, damaged or destroyed. How would they all be kept track of? What if they require registration of key components fitted such as radio and engine. Would that mean mods to the registration log if you change radio or engine?Far easier to require registration of individuals rather than aircraft.A previous poll asked how many models do you own....that would give a good indication of the numbers of aircraft in existence using stats. I reckon 400000 in the UK.Edited By ChrisB on 20/05/2017 10:10:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 I agree with Piers, any third party act that causes an aircraft to land/crash in an uncontrolled manner is aircraft endangerment. A case a few years ago of a policeman snatching the TX out of the hands of a drone pilot in a park, the policeman didn't know how to fly the drone and it crashed immediately. The officer would have been guiltyof endangering an aircraft.Sorry...off topic a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Posted by ken anderson. on 20/05/2017 09:54:33: you are breaking the (law) if you are in control of a car and using a mobile phone......we all see it every day......very hard to enforce for the boys in blue,and I imagine the same will apply to any rules that are brought out re...UAV's and M/R's .......... shutting the gate when all the horses have escaped etc comes to mind... but certain authorities will have to be seen to do something and I think whatever is decided it will effect ALL of us not just a minority ken Anderson...... ne....1 too late dept. It's true that some people (even professional drivers who rely on their licence for a living) persist in using hand held phones but if they are involved in an accident the fact that they were using a phone at the time is very much taken into account. The same would apply to unregistered users of RC aircraft should registration become a requirement (which I doubt). Totally inexperienced and unqualified people have been putting to sea forever and putting others at risk and nothing has been done despite calls from some quarters for regulation. Like model flying, it's been decided it's just too complicated. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Davies 4 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 If there are no restrictions governing the use of paramotors ( I don`t mean that someone using a paramotor doesn`t have to heed all flying rules where they apply) , how in Gods name can model flyers be expected to put up with any form of control or policing of the hobby, whether it be by registering all models , or pilots , or both , or instigating better instruction standards or what have you ??? Anyone can buy a paramotor and go fly, no instruction necessary , recommended but not mandatory, and no medical either , and nor is a license needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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