How much does your club membership cost on top of your adult 33 pounds BMFA membership?

[Cuban8]

Posted by cymaz on 26/10/2016 06:36:18:

Do other clubs have open events that other clubs can attend?

Many clubs do open their doors to visiting flyers and have fly-in type events. Why some clubs should be more amenable to such events, I can't be sure of. However, a few reasons that do come to mind as regards problems may be to do with objections from landowners worried about 'strangers' on their land, to a simple lack of facilities for carparking over and above what might be the norm.

Perhaps worries over unknown models and modellers causing havoc, or simply that a club's members have no interest in sharing their facilities and are happy to fly with people that they know and are confident of.

[Cuban8]

Posted by Martyn Johnston on 26/10/2016 10:52:52:

Cuban8. An £80 joining fee !

is that specifically designed to put people off joining? Have you got too many members and you're trying to prevent others joining?

We have no joining fee at all; we want to encourage new members.

Not at all. Currently our books are closed as we reached what we feel is a reasonable number earlier in the year. Even with the joining fee our numbers swelled to 135 a few years ago, but we keep to about 120 now. If someone is desperate and has nowhere to fly, we always try to help.

Why should an £80 joining fee put anyone off? We feel that given the many thousands of pounds that have been invested in providing and maintaining a top-notch club facility, primarily from subs paid over the years, then asking a new member to contribute is not unreasonable. We operate at a slight annual surplus, so this usually goes to our contingency fund that we keep in case our rents are wildly increased, or we have to come up with a large deposit to rent somewhere else without going around with the hat to members.

I should say that in the seventeen years that I've been our club's membership secretary, I've never had anyone have an issue with the joining fee. All in, a new member joining between January and July will pay £181.

We have to keep the club viable given the rents that we are charged here near London, so that cost might come as a surprise to others. We have two fields to maintain and our annual rent for both is of the order of £6000. That of course doesn't cover the cost of field maintenance ( hedges clipped, grass cutting and machinery maintenance, access road, carpark and gate repairs etc).

 

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 26/10/2016 11:30:14

[Bob Burton]

I would have answered "I don't belong to a club" but there was no option for that.

[GONZO]

Cuban8, So if a member joins, pays his £80 and stays for several years what happens if he leaves and re joins some years later? Does he get his initial £80 back and then pay it back into the club when re joining a few or more years later. Or, as I suspect, the club keeps his initial £80 and then charges another £80 when he re joins some years later. Could be that work or family took him away from the area. Or he had health or financial problems. I grant that the committee could waive the second £80 but this would be at their discretion. If it is as you say for past investment by member then surely a once a lifetime payment would be the correct way.

[Cuban8]

Our joining fee is a simple one-off payment levied on a brand new member. If you decide to take a break and allow your membership to lapse for any reason, then you'll just be charged the usual annual membership on rejoining, although that will not be at the discounted rate for early renewal.

If you rejoin after July then a 1/3 discount on the club sub applies, together with any BMFA reduction. Just thinking about this, we don't have many members who come and go every two or three years  -  more often it's a case of a much longer break because of family, health or work, usually eight or ten years away and then coming back to the hobby.

The club subs for most clubs really are very cheap worked out on a weekly basis (less than £1.50 for us) , probably less than what you pay in petrol getting to the field for a day's flying - and a lot less if you have several flights with a turbine model and the cost of jet fuel. Even a cup of coffee from the garage on the way home will set you back a couple of quid.

 

 

 

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 26/10/2016 13:35:42

[iqon]

I think any joining fee is out of order ......£80 is nonsense. we want new members, why would we want to put them off with a joining fee

Perhaps that should be a new poll !!!

[Cuban8]

When all is said and done, any prospective new member can visit our field and decide whether what we offer is worth what we charge and then make a decision to join or not. We certainly wouldn't be offended if anyone said thanks, but no thanks..............nobody has said that yet!

Could it be that other clubs are underselling themselves?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I don't think our club charges Iqon enough, should be double what rest of us pay

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

We have a joining fee (£50) which we charge members who don't renew. If a lapsed member rejoins within 3 years, we discount this to £5 - which acts as an incentive to renew during the AGM to end of January renewal period. I'm not aware that any new member has ever queried the joining fee, which reflects the considerable investment in money and work into our facilities over the years. That work and investment continues during an extended lay-off so it's felt reasonable to impose it if someone returns several years later.

The club aims to maintain a decent float for unforeseen circumstances but we've continued to maintain our membership fee at the same level for quite a few years, while investing in new facilities and equipment.

[GONZO]

A question on the validity/morality of charging a joining fee. You move into a new area(its your choice to go there or somewhere else). You start paying your council tax and are presented with an additional 'one off' fee to pay as recognition for the services and buildings paid for by previous council tax payers. How would you feel and respond to the council.

Do we pay a joining fee when we initially tax our first car in recognition of the roads etc that have been paid for by previous drivers?

We all, in this country, stand on the shoulders of those that went before us and enjoy what their legacy and endeavours have provided for those of us that come after them. On your birth you are not presented with a bill(joining fee). Rather payment is by your continued contribution to the society you have just joined over the rest of your life, however long or short that may be.

I can understand and possibly accept(just) a small fee for any fresh paper work, new gate key etc for new members. But I find this modern trend to charge a joining fee totally unacceptable and morally dubious.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I'm not sure that "morally dubious" applies to membership of a club which is totally optional to join and something which is agreed and supported by the existing members. It's certainly not a modern trend in our case - the joining fee dates back into the mists of time and certainly long before my knowledge.

Edited By Martin Harris on 26/10/2016 14:27:39

[Cuban8]

Having being involved with running model flying clubs in various capacities for a good many years, I do feel that with a few notable exceptions, our clubs are run on a shoestring, given that most of us rent our sites and are limited in what can be done to improve things for the members.

If all you've got is a patch of rough pasture complete with cows and sheep, then maybe a few hundred quid and a couple of bottles of Bells at Christmas for the farmer will be all that needs to be financed. My club's main field (almost 30 acres) is rented from a farmer and we're very fortunate to not have any livestock present, so we've invested much time and money in the grass strip which is now of bowling green quality all year round.

The outfield is cut for hay by the farmer and when we wanted to extend our strip by some 30%, to help with cross wind conditions, we had to compensate him for loss of some of his hay 'crop' by an increase in rent. The money had to be found, but the improvement was welcomed by all.

[GONZO]

All these clubs that claim justification for a joining fee on the work and financial investment from the past. Do you have written in your constitution that on the club being dissolved that a proportion of the final total financial assets of the club are distributed proportionately between past and present members, index linked of course?

[GONZO]

Martin, its optional to use a car and also to some extent which council area you live in. Any answers on my question re council tax/car tax one off payments and how you would feel. You could have many scenarios in similar vein. You could chooses to work abroad for a number of years as an ex pat or immigrate and then move back. Should those people be charged a one off payment to come back. How about the migrants we see 'banging on our door' to be let in, charge them a one off fee as well?

Its irrelevant whether its an optional  act to join or not to the morality of charging a one off joining fee.

 

Edited By GONZO on 26/10/2016 14:42:46

Edited By GONZO on 26/10/2016 14:46:39

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by GONZO on 26/10/2016 14:30:51:

All these clubs that claim justification for a joining fee on the work and financial investment from the past. Do you have written in your constitution that on the club being dissolved that a proportion of the final total financial assets of the club are distributed proportionately between past and present members, index linked of course?

No - all outstanding funds are to be distributed to charities.

I really can't understand your depth of feeling on the subject of joining fees. If an organisation sees fit to request one, that is their concern. Model flying is a hobby, not a necessity and clubs need to work on small margins. The joining fee not only reflects the value you're "buying in to" but demonstrates a level of commitment. I'm sure most clubs will have had people "do" model flying, who are very enthusiastic at first and then seem to lose interest as new interests come along.

While it is optional to use a car, there is no choice of road network (other than the odd toll road) and you could equally ask why your council tax is higher than someone living in a cheaper area - you get the same services from them.

Quite frankly, if you don't like a club's policies then there are a few options - look elsewhere, form your own club, join and try to "sell" your point of view or just accept the status quo. Harsh? Maybe - but our members appear to have been happy with the situation (and we have discussed the subject regularly) for decades.

[GONZO]

Joining fees are just a way of subsidising the annual club fees to the benefit of the existing, possibly long term, members to the detriment of new members. All clubs have a degree of 'churn' of members and this changing element of the membership is disproportionately subsidising the other members If the club is working on small(too small) margins then the yearly fee needs to go up. To me it 'smacks' of an air of elitism, financial opportunism(taking advantage of the transient membership) and financial exclusion. When you talk of a level of commitment you really mean 'financial commitment'. Its a hobby to be enjoyed as and when/if and when you choose. What's so wrong if some one takes up modelling for a few years and then goes elsewhere. I would guess that my perception of 'joining fee' clubs is shared by many others if the estimate of modellers not in any club is as high as the numbers I've seen would suggest.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by GONZO on 26/10/2016 15:26:06:

When you talk of a level of commitment you really mean 'financial commitment'.

You've misjudged my point totally. The financial commitment represents the level of commitment to the hobby and if that stops someone "wasting" their money by joining on a whim, that may be for the best.

Perhaps you haven't had the experience of investing a great deal of time and effort into training a newcomer, who appears enthusiastic and totally happy with the club, only to find them drifting off to other things once they have their shiny new A certificate as a memento of having "done" model flying. More often than not, these people are juniors who we don't ask for a joining fee from!

Yes, joining fees do (slightly) swell club funds and benefit regular flyers in the same way that the many irregular attenders do - you wouldn't advocate charging club fees on a "per flight" basis, I'd imagine? That must be far fairer and morally justified...

I'm not intending further comment as we've obviously wildly differing viewpoints. Joining fees are a widespread feature of club memberships in many fields (unintentional pun) - especially where large investments have been made in infrastructure - and seem to be accepted widely. If we felt that ours was putting off potential members we would review the policy but this hasn't been our experience.

Edited By Martin Harris on 26/10/2016 15:54:06

[Stuphedd]

our joining fee is that you have to be liked, and accepted by the rest of the members, after a few sessions flying with us , then if accepted !its a fiver to cover the cost of petrol for the years mowing ,

it works for us !!

Pete

[Model Monster]

Our joining fee is 150 quid. This has gradually increased over the years and is balanced in conjunction with our annual membership fees, taking into account rent, running costs (we spend a fair bit on feeding members at club events), plenty of facilities maintenance and planned improvements. We're always full and have a very healthy waiting list. Our only concessions are 50% discount for juniors.

[David Stembridge]

We pay £60.00 + BMFA for 7 day a week flying 10.00 until 1hour before dusk. We are the most easterly UK club so enjoy brilliant sea views from our grass strip.

[Bobby]

Club 1 £5 Club 2 £35 Club 3 last year £30 but will go back. special rate for 2016

[GONZO]

I've expressed my dislike of this joining fee levy before and the first time in my life(born 1947) that I ever encountered it was in 2009 when the club I was in voted it in at the AGM. Another aspect that I disliked was also passed. All members that belonged to another club that handled their BMFA membership paid a higher club membership fee than those that had their BMFA membership through this club. In my time I've belonged to quite a few clubs(not just MAC's) and associations, some with considerably more investment in finance, infrastructure and member work input than MAC's. I've only encountered this 'joining fee levy' in MAC's. I located the webb sites of some of my past clubs etc.(no webb sites back then) and they still do not levy a joining fee.

Martin, yes I have had the experience in investing a lot of time in training and in building of planes for the club displays. Back in the late 70's early 80's I maintained the club trainer which used home built radio and buddy box(by me). I did the training. You paid your fee, which just covered the cost of fuel, booked a time and turned up having read the info provided. The plane would be ready to go and generally you got 45min flying for your hour slot.

[GONZO]

On the charging on a per flight basis, If this could be done I see no reason not to. Those that use the club more pay more. But, it would have to be done alongside a basic annual fee(lowest level possible to cover fixed costs, or just below as some use will always happen)

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

As I said last week, I don't feel that there's anything to be gained by further discussion over personal viewpoints - these are collective decisions by groups of people and accepted by those who choose, of their own free will, to join them. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and free to join or not join any club and to use democratic means to influence any decisions made by them.

My main objection is in being told that my, and many other club's policies, are immoral. That's rather too strong a word in my view.