john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Look to be going around in circles to me fella's let's simplify it, some feel Skywriter is too complex and is putting people off entering ? Do you want to add the runner up into the MB ? all you need is enough to say yes otherwise what's the point ? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C. Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Adding a runner up sounds like it could be a good idea to increase the number of participants , it's yes from me 👍 Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Look what i spotted on the BMFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn44 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Yes a runner up thumbs up here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Well let's first see what the outright winner is, then see what other model might get enough support for another MB. It might not necessarily be the second place design when you think about it - people may have very differnt reasons for building some design instead of another. For example the SLEC Funfly might come second but the Kwik Fli might appeal to more people who are already building the Skywriter and might build a Kwik Fli as well. ( some have said that already) Or there could suddenly be a surge of voting one way or another. You cannot really predict the outcome of a vote until you do the count as Brexit & Trump have proved! Edited By kc on 21/11/2016 17:29:46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 As in the past I'm happy to build more than one and a mid/low wing aerobat would be nice alongside the skywriter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Yes I'll go along with a runner up model too. It will increase the number of participants. Not saying I'm going to build it mind! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanN Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Posted by john stones 1 on 21/11/2016 14:28:56: Look to be going around in circles to me fella's let's simplify it, some feel Skywriter is too complex and is putting people off entering ? Do you want to add the runner up into the MB ? all you need is enough to say yes otherwise what's the point ? John Think I've already said it on here, but "yes" - although not because the Skywriter is too complex:simply to get as many involved as possible Why limit it to just one runner up? I'd say tot up the final results and if it's just two way out in front then fine, but if there are 3, or 4, that have a strong obvious following over the rest of the pack then go for it What's the worst that can happen - people will build some planes! If it doesn't work then we'll know for next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Hofman Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The worst that can happen is that one kills the concept of a mass-build. The essense of a mass build is that a number of people are building the same model at the same time, stimulating each other by posting progress, asking questions, getting answers etc. If 3 are building model A, 2 model B, 1 model C and yet another doing D there is not much gained over the pethoria of building blogs we already have on modelflying.co.uk or similar sites, and there will not be much point in following those either. I will expect fewer of those models will be completed compared with a focused mass-build. What would be needed to achieve the "mass build" effect? I would say least 5 persons (or another treshold) committing to build the same model and starting at the same time. Lucas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Posted by Lucas Hofman on 22/11/2016 08:14:31: The worst that can happen is that one kills the concept of a mass-build. The essense of a mass build is that a number of people are building the same model at the same time, stimulating each other by posting progress, asking questions, getting answers etc. Lucas Actually Lucas although the first Mass Build featured only one model, the Webbit, the second Mass Build was for any vintage model so a precedent has already been set for having more than one model in the mass build. Participation in both of these two mass builds was pretty extensive. It was a pity that the weather was so awful on the weekend of the vintage Fly-In at Greenacres but that didn't stop many vintage models from being built. When we chose to go back to a single model, the Tucano, for the third mass build, my recollection is that fewer models were built, so I'm in favour of a runner up model of simpler construction which could inspire novice builders to have a go.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iqon Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 So it`s not to get people building then .....you are still encouraging even if its a different model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Hofman Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 David (and others), I am not against having multiple groups building different models, as longs as there is at least a handfull and they are building at the same time. Then one will achieve the mass-build effect (it is not stimulating, nor is there any exchange of experience if anyone builds the same model as you do a couple of months later....) The Tucano Mass build had 10-15 participants. That was my first. The Ballerina was the second, and having just finished that another low wing sport acrobat would not be so appealing to me. That may be why many people choose the Skywriter out of a list that contained many appealing designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The worst that could happen is that people are put off building by starting but not managing to finsh a model that is too difficult! Therefore the selection of another model that that is well suited to novice builders is key. Of course the model has to be interesting enough to attract many experienced builders as well to get the right sort of guidance. Actually it's not just the complexity of techniques that we should be considering but the time that will be taken by novices to complete the build. Simpler construction will also mean less time needed so a bigger chance of actually finishing the model. Building a biplane like Skywriter will take the novice far longer than a Kwik Fli or any monoplane with simple sheet fuselage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The problem of having only one model for the Mass Build is that it is impossible to please everyone, for as we all know there are different tastes and skill levels to cater for. It seems to be agreed that the MB's aim is to encourage newcomers to the hobby to get building with the benefit of several build threads and online help from the forum. This seems to happen even when more than one model is selected. Even last year there were two mass builds; the Ballerina and the A4 Skyhawk, and both were very well supported. I finished my A4 but the Ballerina is still in bits! I think several Skywriters will get built but it's popularity (or not) will be attributed to its complexity, not to the fact that it is this years sole winner. So yes, there should be a runner up and preferably something that flies well and goes together quickly. The clue might be in the name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 Same things get brought up every year folks If enough commit to one or two models..it works. so commit to a second or what's the point of keeping suggesting it ? Why did i join my first MB ? the atmosphere of it and the blogs to learn from, the choice of model had little to do with it. Time you starting singing the praises of the most popular choice, and encouraging folk rather than telling them it's too complex for them. Rear formers ? buy them ready cut or do a turtle deck with balsa or thin ply. Cabane ? bend some ali, if you can't do it someone will help out..they always do. Two wings ? yep it's one then another, both straightforward. Fuzz ? it's a sheet side with doublers and stringers on. Tail ? Standard stuff. Struts ? Two pieces of wood. Have i simplified it ? yep but if an average builder like me can do it so can others. Perhaps that's why they keep voting for it ? John Edited By john stones 1 on 22/11/2016 13:02:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The extra bits are all time consuming and time is what everyone says they don't have nowadays. ( it's not true of course there is still 24 hours a day and people are living longer) So only a reasonably quick build will persuade some to desert ARTF & start real modelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Whatever the result of the ballot, I will be building a Baron for the reasons stated in my post on 3rd November. Were we not going to have six or seven Barons in the air at the same time at our club's open day next summer, I would have probably gone for the Kwik Fly. It's easy to build and and very aerobatic. It would probably improve my flying too. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Hofman Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Maybe I am a litte out of tune with many, but for me the joy of participating in a mass build is the building part. So what is the point of choosing something that minimizes the building phase? Then the fun is over faster! If one wants a plane to fly with an ARF or a second hand plane is both quicker and cheaper. I do understand one needs to choose a target within reach, so those that feel more comfortable with a simpler build should by all means do so, but for those have build a plane or two and who actually like building the Skywriter will give many hours of joy in the workshop! Edited By Lucas Hofman on 22/11/2016 14:03:28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn44 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Committing to second choice,as requested Sir! SLEC fun fly. I'll probably build the winner, and this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanN Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Posted by john stones 1 on 22/11/2016 12:59:48: If enough commit to one or two models..it works. so commit to a second or what's the point of keeping suggesting it ? Thought I already had, but for the avoidance of any doubt here's committing to the Kwik-Fli In fact two - a Flea Fli - and then one from either the original KF III (it is after all the 50th anniversary) or one of Martyn K's .40 sized jobbies: quite fancying the IV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The III-40 ic is just about finished ready for covering. I should have the IV-40 wing ribs coming this week and the remainder of the parts kit for the E version as well. I spotted a couple of errors in the plans so just waiting for the bits to arrive before I release them. Hopefully have the IV-40 finished by mid December. If people do want to build these particular models (not the standard or fleas), can you register interest on the KF40 build thread and also let me know if you want the ic or E versions. I may try and get some plans printed and distributed if I gauge quantity. Alternatively, I can post them up on AeroFred and paper copies can be ordered directly. Sorry - these questions are a bit OT here - apologies Thanks Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Feather Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 My intention is to build a KF3 regardless (original scale, as I have a 61 looking for a home - sorry Martyn), because I really like the idea of marking the 50th anniversary and I'm looking for a retro patternship; and also to build whatever model wins the MB vote (currently looking like the Skywriter - though if KF wins, I'm not planning to build two of them!). Though as yet I'm undecided which order to do it in; I may build the KF first and order the Skywriter plan to study whilst doing so. cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low pass Pete Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Hi all I voted for Skywriter as I saw it as a nice follow on from Ballerina. Pete Miller's excellent design has awakened my building efforts following many ARTFs. Many years ago I built a small shoulder wing arobat designed by Dereck Woodward called Holi. It was featured in Radio Control Model World and I still have the plan in my store. The plan is still available on the Traplet site. **LINK** Holi would have been a great contender for MB2017 as it is cheap cheerful and as I found out last time around very good. Originally designed for a 25 and mine started with an Irvine 25 and ended up with an ASP46 for a while!! She fell into disuse and it was scrapped a couple of years ago. Anyway to continue I still had the ply cut-out for the ribs and plenty of left over balsa so what the heck. Holi Mk2 is now taking shape. This time I'm using a spare ASP32 which should be a great match for her. The design by the way is very simple at 40in span and builds as a one piece airframe so it is a great no 2 for ones fleet. Will post a few photos when I have time. Cheers for now Peter PS . Holi apparently stood for Holiday Special which seems rather appropriate for this time of year as Christmas is not far away Edited By Low pass Pete on 24/11/2016 05:35:49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Hofman Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Very much looking forward to a Skywriter MB. I have spend some time studying the plan and have just started on a material list and spec for the electical setup. Will publish the list when done. December will be planning and ordering, hoping to start cutting parts/making a kit in the Christmas holidays. Mine will be on 4 cells, very similar to the Ballerina. My Ballerina came in on 1750 gr, the Skywriter will be somewhat heavier I expect so will be less acrobatic. That is fine. During the Ballerina MB some used laminating for wing tips and tails. I intend to try out this technique on the Skywriter. In addition I have never used glass on a model and made panels, rivets and so on. Every build is an opportunity to learn something new! Lucas Edited By Lucas Hofman on 24/11/2016 07:06:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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