john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Yes number decline over time, 42 have voted so far, Skywriter has 10 first choices Flis have 7. The numbers are what they are and beginners have choices in there...on a positive note some joined the Ballerina build who hadn't voted at all, numbers ended up pretty good. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Hofman Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 The mass build is not only for those building their first model. Since many participants join multiple years the social aspect of building together (in a virtual way) must be at least at important. The skywriter does not look (after reviewing the build blog) not significantly more complex than the Ballerina, it is just more (A set of wings and some cabanes/struts, to be exact). No electric conversion is needed, and a kit is available for those who want a quick start. One does not need to paint, make panel lines or rivets. However, what is important is that one, as a builder, likes the model a lot and wants to spend a significant number of hours in the shop making it inot reality. That is, at least for me, crucial for any building project. And there the Skywalker, with its harmonious elegance, scores very high. Happy dreaming! Lucas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn44 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Ok thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 This is easing the pressure on me getting 2 x KF-40 completed by then end of November. They will still completed by the end of November if the laser cutter turns the parts round fast enough Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Posted by David Davis on 09/11/2016 12:17:01: John, I have been looking at the sixteen models listed and I feel that seven of them are too complex for a first build and seven of the others are simple enough for a beginner to be able to build fairly well especially with the help of build blogs on this site. The seven models which I feel would attract those with some building experience are: Super Slinky, Skywriter, Astro Hog, Robot, Striker, Fan Trainer and Super Kaos Junior. The simpler models are: Basic 3D, Kwik Fli, Evans Volksplane, Maricardo, Smog Hog, SLEC Fun Fly and Baron. I'm not sure which category to put the Grumpy Tiger Cub and Aztec Two Step into! They look simple enough build but being twin enginned, may be difficult to fly especially if flown with i/c engines. What I would like to suggest is that at the end of November you offer the leading two or three models from each category for a final vote. This need only take a week. At the end of that week we would have two models for the mass build. One a relatively simple model which might attract first time builders and another model which would give more experienced modellers something to get their teeth into. I realise that my categories are somewhat arbitrary. If you decide to accept my proposal, please feel free to move a model from the one list to the other as you see fit. I missed your post David sorry I want something to build over the Winter and some good company to go along with it, how we get there's not that important to me and maybe we've used all the newbies up in previous years and it's time to move them on a stage (my Ballerina came way down the order of merit) Lucas makes some good points also, and once builds start we may get others join in thinking "i can do that". I'll go with the flow, i think Martyn's right though don't dilute too much and use the votes as the guide. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 You must be right regarding the 'newbies', John. I guess it's a bit like the Mohicans and I must be the 'last one' of them... but yet, still on the move with my Bella Ballerina... More seriously, several gents made good opinions here. Martyn, Lucas but also David - with his 'split' proposal - and even you, young man... The social aspect, some "good company", a nice build to cover those winter months with a shared purpose of getting it/her 'maiden'... what else does one desire? Too bad the Baron won't go for Presidency... not here... not over the pond neither... Good job, John... and good luck. Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 The Baron's not doing so well among its peers Chris, looks like Hamish has sworn loyalty though John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Could it be a 'culture difference'? As of course the Baron is a French design and we could all remember history, couldn't we? Believe me, the kit that those passionate Belgian modelers/friends managed to 'recreate' from the Svenson drawings is just amazing. Have a close look at those lightened ribs that I posted, John. To be honest, I would really like to build a biplane in the near future but I shouldn't really fancy one with flat bottom wings... strictly my personal view, of course. But don't worry, maybe 'we' will have a Mini Build with the Baron instead of a Mass Build... Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Could be a low vote for the Baron as people expect the instructions to be in French and as you know we English are not too keen on foreign languages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Sorry KC, but didn't you know that this forum has a very 'personal' translator even if I'm the first to admit that English is only my third language. On the other end, if you download the Vicomte 1915 plan from Outerzone, you will see that the building instructions & complete parts lists are written down in 4 languages, being GB (in first position), FR, NL & D... Svenson Models used to have a very solid international reputation in those days with up to 1:4 scale models produced, but unfortunately all of it went down when the Spanish people took over from Mr Engelbert when he retired... Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 I've had SE5a, Tiggie, Pup, Tinker, all flat bottom wing and good models, easier build for 1st timers as well. How many Ballerinas came off the building boards different, you think all Skywriters will have flat bottom wings ?..i doubt it myself John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 You might be right, John. Some Skywriters could end up with a Pitts, Extra or Sbach airfoil... certainly as "easier build for 1st timers as well"... But can you remember how many Ballerinas came off the board with a different airfoil than the one Peter designed originally? Anyway, this is not really worth a debate, is it? Long life to the Skywriter's MB. Cheers Chris Edited By McG 6969 on 09/11/2016 20:43:48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Posted by McG 6969 on 09/11/2016 17:18:48: Too bad the Baron won't go for Presidency... not here... not over the pond neither... Good job, John... and good luck. Cheers Chris I will be building a Baron over the winter anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 That's great news, David. Are you planning to use the 'Baron Models' kit? If Hamish remains in, we could even have a Small Mass Build then... Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven S Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I'm still very interested in the Baron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just keep your interest in the Baron, Steven. And if Hamish stays in, that should make 4 of us... great. Cheers Chris Edited By McG 6969 on 09/11/2016 21:50:55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn44 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 As the skywriter is looking favourite, I've had a look at the wood packs etc. The complete package is around £124.00. So with power train, servos it might tot up to close on £200, well for me anyway. Scary!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Well Glynn, I guess that some British modelers must be really 'wealthy', then. The French 'Baron Models' kit costs € 72,- (about £ 62) + postage, while the Belgian 'Mousquetaire 1916' kit (from the original Svenson Vicomte 1915 plan) is yours at € 69,- (about £ 60) + postage. That's about half of the price... I don't know how complete the Skywriter pack really is, but for the F and BE kits, I know that you have to add the spars, LE & stringers (from 1x1,5 + 1x3mm and 1x6mm stripped sheet with some leftovers when cut). Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Walby Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Being new, when is a decision made about the 2017 mass build model? And is there a combined purchase power or does everyone do there own thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 Vote closes 8pm November 27th Chris, past builds have had a parts discount ( i think), i can ask but can't make promises. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 If we are discussing costs than I think a scratch built Kwik Fli 3/40 will be somewhat cheaper. You don't need a plan, you just need an A4 printer to print about 15 sheets of paper - about 15p - Materials (excluding glue, hardware and covering - which will be less than a biplane) Depending on your scrap box but I think you need Balsa (36" long) 12 sheets 1/16 x 4 3 sheets 1/8 x 4 1 sheet 1/4 x 4 1 sheet 3/8 x 4 1 sheet 1/2 x 4 (wing tips) 3 3/8 triangle 1 1/4 triangle 6 1/4 x 1/4 4 1/8 x 14 2 1/8 x 1/8 1/8 Liteply - about 600 x 300 1/8 birch ply 300 x 300 1/16 ply for odds and sods and long enough to cut the 1/16 ply rib template Short length of 6mm dowel (B&Q) 10g piano wire Odd scraps - Any odd sizes can be made up be laminating I think that lot would be less than £50.00 and you will learn a *lot* more about building if starting from scratch Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Hofman Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 The same would hold for a scratch build Skywriter. The plan is free for all who have the October 2013 issue. Typically price for the wood alone will be half the kit price. And HK is your friend for servo's, motor, ESC, wheels and covering. If you have not something laying around from a model that either did not live up to expectation or met an early grave. What does help is to choose the powertrain so you can re-use batteries. I will go for a 4S setup for that reason. More or less the same what is in the ballerina. Total budget should be around GBP 100 I think. Lucas Edited By Lucas Hofman on 14/11/2016 11:00:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I was quite surprised that Martyn's estimate for his Kwik Fli build would be as much as 50 pounds, however a quick check of the cost of SLEC balsa showed that Martyn's quantities come to 42.27 ( including a length of dowel and a sq ft of 1/16 ply ) and the carriage would add 9 pounds or so. Balsa Cabin prices would be similar. So about 50 pounds is correct! i am amazed/ horrified that it costs so much. Let's hope it doesn't put people off from building from scratch - it's not the cost it's the satisfaction you get from flying a model you built yourself that matters.. And of course any model built from scratch is usually repairable at very little cost if a disaster happens. But I still say the SLEC Funfly at 75 pounds ( electric version) should be seriously considered for the Mass Build. A kit with laser cut balsa and lots of hardware for about the same cost as building from scratch ( when you include the hardware like clevis, rods, etc etc). Kit includes cowl, the plan, excellent step by step instructions even a sheet of polythene to cover the plan, u/c parts ready bent. Really good flyer too - competition winner in the past. It's a very good choice for a first time builder and intermediate to competant pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Current state of votes, Skywriter 74 pts, 11 first choices, 7 2nd choices, 3 3rd choices. Flis 47 pts 7 1st choices, 4 2nd choices. Slec Fun Fly 38 pts, 3 1st choices, 7 2nd choices, 2 3rd choices. And for Chris... Baron 27 pts, 5 1st choices 2 3rd choices. Not the numbers of previous years but enough in there to make it worthwhile i think. I'll build whatever wins, Skywriter yep it'll cost a bit more but you get two wings hard to build ? cabane is only thing that i see as different from the norm, lots of good builders on here to help folk through that bit though. Can't see why we can't discuss what we do before vote closes myself ? not be first time MB's had more than one model, so will this one ? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanN Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Posted by kc on 14/11/2016 12:14:59: I was quite surprised that Martyn's estimate for his Kwik Fli build would be as much as 50 pounds, however a quick check of the cost of SLEC balsa showed that Martyn's quantities come to 42.27 ( including a length of dowel and a sq ft of 1/16 ply ) and the carriage would add 9 pounds or so. Balsa Cabin prices would be similar. So about 50 pounds is correct! i am amazed/ horrified that it costs so much. Let's hope it doesn't put people off from building from scratch - it's not the cost it's the satisfaction you get from flying a model you built yourself that matters.. And of course any model built from scratch is usually repairable at very little cost if a disaster happens. But I still say the SLEC Funfly at 75 pounds ( electric version) should be seriously considered for the Mass Build. A kit with laser cut balsa and lots of hardware for about the same cost as building from scratch ( when you include the hardware like clevis, rods, etc etc). Kit includes cowl, the plan, excellent step by step instructions even a sheet of polythene to cover the plan, u/c parts ready bent. Really good flyer too - competition winner in the past. It's a very good choice for a first time builder and intermediate to competant pilot. NB that the £75 quoted for the SLEC Funfly only applies to the electric version. Anyone wanting to use an engine has to fork out £94.99, plus whatever postage costs, for the i.c. kit That £50 for a scratch build Kwik Fli is probably pretty accurate if you're starting from "ground zero" with no materials to hand at all. Some might be doing that, but I'm not seeing many complete novices to building in this discussion so it's a reasonable assumption that many - the majority? - of us will already have a stash of wood and hardware to draw upon. So a lot of people won't need to be forking out that £50 to participate That obviously also applies to all the other plan build candidates aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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