Seagull Hurricane

[Tim Flyer]

Cheers Jon . I must also add it does look great in the air . As you said the 180 has more than enough power for it and was as easy as all your motors to handle and start up. I wouldn’t want to put anybody off buying this Hurricane. It’s great value too. I would just make sure you have an experienced Warbird partner to help with the first few flights. Few people will be buying this size plane as a first Warbird I would think anyway . Although my rolls didn’t score high points I did enjoy it and the lovely deep sound of the 180 engine is just the ticket 😊

[Jon H]

Posted by Tim Flyer on 22/10/2018 13:11:16:

I would just make sure you have an experienced Warbird partner to help with the first few flights.

Absolutely. And make sure they are versed in 'heavy metal' warbirds as its not the same as a 60 inch jobby

[neil martin 1]

Thank you for the maiden report....some good points to note.

What was the AUW?

[Tim Flyer]

Hi Neil. I haven’t actually weighed it yet but it certainly doesn’t feel “heavy “ either to me or Jon. I will check it soon for you and post up on here . Jon commented that it felt light for a big plane and I agree. I am currently repairing the plastic canopy having found a fairly easy alternative to the Seagull version( no Seagull spares seem to be easily available) . I found the Sarik Models canopy can be easily modified to fit and I’m just painting the frame lines at the moment.

[Tim Flyer]

My Seagull Hurricane with Laser 180 as above weighs 17.7lbs without fuel. I have reinforced it as I feel appropriate and it is still a relatively light plane for its size .

Rather than reduce rates further ( and therefore reduce sensitivity I decided to move the elevator clevises to the middle servo hole. That will reduce total range and make the plane feel less sensitive as more sick movement is required for a given servo movement, but still allows the servo to operate in a reasonable range. For the rudder I just increased travel by moving the clevis outwards.

I have just set up a program mix for gear/ elevator on my Futaba 14SG . As the gear is electric there is just an on off switch so speed control isn’t possible from what I can see . One point that I found out that was on program mixes the rate is a % of full range the system allows so if you are already using a reduced rate the % and deflection on control surface will not match so be careful to check actual control surface deflection before and after 😊. I have increased rudder deflection too .

[Tim Flyer]

Here is a picture of amended elevator set up the two clevises are now on the middle hole. The rudder is on the outer .

[Jon H]

Im surprised to hear its nearly 18lbs, it felt lighter than that.

Not that it matters particularly, i dont think we used more than 1/2 throttle for normal flying about so power is not an issue.

Moving the horns on the elevator is a good idea. Once down to 35% on the rates it was time to move the linkage for sure, as long as the overall movement ends up the same its not going to be a problem

[Tim Flyer]

Cheers Jon I agree. We were using very little throttle and I remember when flying it the nose going up on full throttle quite markedly. I remember you didn’t think it worth using washers behind the top engine mounts and firewall to lower thrust angle, but wondered if that is still the case. I’m not very technical on thrust lines and balancing I’m afraid.

[Jon H]

it seemed that the pitch trim changes came with airspeed and not directly from the throttle as even when off throttle in a dive the model wanted to climb. Its something we can revisit and refine later if we choose to but for now i would not worry too much as too many changes can have unexpected results.

I think its just very pitch sensitive which is not uncommon for WWII fighters as we have discussed before. One thing that might also be worth while is changing the rates on the P47 so it feels more like the Hurricane and just practice flying with very small control inputs.

we can look at it all again next time you fly it

[Tim Flyer]

Cheers Jon . Thank You again for explaining.

[Geoff S]

I think this is the same model a club member maidened earlier in the year. His is electric on 10S LiPos but I don't think that would affect the flying characteristics.

It was maidened by one of the club's aces and he had a little trouble with it (but I can't remember what) it flew well once trimmed out like yours. I think aileron trim was the problem but the landing was OK but the model nosed over. The grass patch rather than the tarmac had been chosen.

I witnessed the second flight, too. This time the owner/builder flew and it was great but once more, despite a really good approach it nosed over with a little damage to the motor mount. Les (the owner) is a self employed high quality joiner/cabinet maker so his woodwork is exemplary. The repairs looked to be fairly straight forward.

It seems nosing over on landing might be an issue which could be lack of elevator at landing speed with flaps but from what you say here it's very sensitive in pitch. I've had the same problem with my Mew Gull and solved it by bending the u/c legs forward - but now I can't fit the spats which spoils the look somewhat.

It is a lovely looking model with great presence in the air (even on electric ) and I'm sure, once sorted, will be a joy. It's bit too big for me but Les has a huge van he uses for his work so transporting models that size isn't a problem.

Geoff

[Jon H]

warbirds can be a difficult balance as the amount of elevator needed to stop the thing sitting on its nose is often far more than is needed for flight. We also fly off of a very rough surface in scale terms as a blade of grass is the same size for the model as it is for the full size. That said, most of the nose over issues i faced were down to mistakes on my part and a spot of bad luck, i dont think its the norm in the long run

[onetenor]

One must remember WW11 fighters were designed with quick elevator responses to start with so it's to be expected.

[Ron Gray]

Strangely enough, before its demise, my Hurricane didn't show any tendency to nose over even when landing / taxiing on grass.

[Dave Wilshere]

The nosing over is generally because the wheels are not in line or toe in. The ones I have seen tend to be set with slight toe out for wheel and door fit in the wing. Check they are (ideally) fractionally toe in.

[Tim Flyer]

Hi chaps.

Ron I’m very sorry to hear about your hurricane that was a gorgeous looking plane. What happened to it ?

What I often do on my smaller Warbirds (and had to do on my Spitfire) is flip the flaps (via the slider ) up immediately on touchdown as I found they created some “ground effect” on run out and having them back up stopped the model tipping forwards.

My oleos are epoxied into the retract unit so are very solid and centred. I have always been careful with that after my much liked Black Horse Chipmunk’s pinned oleos used to get rather wobbly and on one occasion caused a nose over.

I think having moved the clevis inwards I should be fine now. Just a matter now of having the correct wind and hard enough runway 😊.

 

Edited By Tim Flyer on 09/11/2018 09:48:22

[Ron Gray]

A total user error Tim and to say I was / am gutted is a massive understatement. I had flown it several times with the Laser 180 and thoroughly enjoyed it and had changed the motor over to test the Laser GA30 in it. Before I went to fly it I noticed that the flight battery (4 cell Eneloop) was not holding its charge so I changed it for a 2s LiFe - mistake! the servos were not rated higher than 5v so I had an ailerons failure just after take off which caused it to bank right and I couldn't right it, not even with rudder. She went in and being a composite fus it was a complete write off.

Moral of the story, when buying second hand 'planes throughly check and make notes of all equipment installed!

[Cuban8]

Ron, by any chance were the servos Hitec? I found that the Hitec MG servos I had were very unhappy at much over 6.0 V.

[Ron Gray]

No they were JR 591s. all of my Hitec ones are rated a lot higher than 5v! All of the JRs in the wing were totalled.......

[Jon H]

Posted by Cuban8 on 09/11/2018 13:19:29:

Ron, by any chance were the servos Hitec? I found that the Hitec MG servos I had were very unhappy at much over 6.0 V.

JR591's

 

Ahhh you beat me Ron!

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 09/11/2018 13:41:22

[Tim Flyer]

Blimey that’s terrible. I really think that’s sad ...2sLife are only about 7.2v when full and my NIMH 5s packsare higher when nearly fully charged . Blimey as you say the servos must have been old 4.8v ones. Very sorry to hear ...,and from what I gather that type of Hurricane( YT) isn’t available any more 😒.

I lost my Chipmunk which I used to fly a lot recently also user error. It had the older design slide out wing tabs and while I was rolling stupidly fast one wing came off as the bolt wasn’t tight. Again user error.

[Ron Gray]

I’m usually quite thorough in my pre flight checks but I didn’t even think about the servos as all of the ‘planes I’ve built have ones that can run at higher voltages and I tend to use either 5 cell NiMh packs or 2s LiFe, so it didn’t even cross my mind. It only came to light when I was chatting to Jon about the loss and he mentioned their rating, then the penny dropped!

You are quite right about it’s availability, ESM, the company who produced it, are no longer in business and whilst some of their moulds have been bought by another company it looks like the Hurricane is not one of them. I will keep searching for another but I don’t hold out much hope. In the meantime to cheer me up, there’s an ESM Bearcat winging its way to me which will be a nice home for the GA30 (with suitable lumps of church roof up front).

[Bob Cotsford]

Blimey, I must have had some luck over the years as a number of my IC models were run on 2S LIFe and fitted with 517/519 servos! That was bad luck Ron.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

From the horse's mouth:

JR Servos and 4.8v

JR design their range of servos around the voltage of a 4 cell Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh battery. These batteries are rated at 4.8v but this is a nominal voltage for the battery pack. A 4 cell battery will reach slightly over 6v when fully charged.

With modern Li-Po and Li-Fe batteries being widely used, regulated power supplies are becoming common place in model aircraft to help keep the weight down, keep a stable voltage and to aid in high power situations on large aircraft with high power servos. The use of a regulated power supply upto 6v is fine to use.

However using a 5 cell Ni-Mh battery which is rated at 6v is not ok to use, this battery will reach over 7v when fully charged and may damage the servo. If you are looking to use this type of battery we would recommend the HV, WV or NX range of JR servos which can handle this extra voltage.

Edited By Martin Harris on 09/11/2018 23:32:57

[Tim Flyer]

Big shame . I will stay away from JR . My power supplies are always 5s NIMH/2sLiffe. The Hellcat and Bearcats look to be great planes. Nice with the radial cowl and lots of room too! When I was looking at a Hurricane I considered them after I found the YS wasn’t available. I eventually picked the Seagull Hurricane based partly on reasonable cost and also good experience with other Seagull models . I’m very happy so far and think with the adjustments made we will have cleared it’s teething problems.

Edited By Tim Flyer on 09/11/2018 23:45:05