Mick Reeves Gangster 63 Lite

[Jonathan M]

I've now worked up a full colour sketch of the eventual scheme, which would at least give something to see in this build-thread, which hasn't even yet got beyond the research phase!

But would it be tempting fate to upload a picture before even putting scalpel to lasered balsa sheet...??

[TIM Shaw]

Posted by Nigel R on 08/05/2017 16:08:51:

"Ursa Major is very nice Nigel - not unlike the Aurora 45S"

There's a "family resemblance" for sure - If I have it right, the Ursa Major is a smaller version of Cosmos, which was the immediate predecessor to Aurora.

Suffice it to say Nigel I downloaded a few of the Outerzone plans to a memory stick and popped down what used to be our local staples..

I now have full size drawings for the Supra Fly 25, Mystic 30 and the Ursa Major......

I think my excess 35AX is destined for one of the latter 2....

Built to under 4Ibs I am sure they would go well - did I mention I think 4Lbs is about as much as a good 36 / 35 type motor can handle?

As for adhesives, I am a fan of cyano for most woods, aliphatic for wood / foam, epoxy for firewalls, and Gorilla glue for skinning wings.

But yes, I rarely have a full set of finger prints....

Hope your other problems clear up soon and you can get on with the Gangster build, keep us informed

[Jonathan M]

Cheers Tim

Worked this week through the current bout which is diminishing now. Still, found time between various demands on my time to colour in the proposed scheme sketch:

There's a bit of a theme developing - this is the sketch I worked up in parallel for my Middle Phase, which build I hope will follow the Gangster:

Jon

Edited By Jonathan M on 12/05/2017 22:21:18

[David Davis]

Colours are a very personal thing but I would reverse the colours on the wing and tailpane myself. Yellow being a more visible colour in the sky. Mind you, I can talk, my latest creation is grey!

[McG 6969]

Hi Jon.

I do realize that you're still in the 'research & design phase', but are you sure that the prop of the Gangster is truly balanced ? ... It seems a bit wobbly...

Cheers

Chris

[Jonathan M]

Chris, the piccie shows the Gangster running at tickover on the ground... all wobble disappears at higher revs!!

More worrying is my clear lack of building skills: that wing TE is definitely not straight!

[TIM Shaw]

I'm with David.

Many years ago I bought a Curare from a clubmate. He had decided that since everything looks black at a distance, he might as well paint it black......

It VERY rapidly developed big orange and yellow patches on the surfaces though.

Similarly with my Erwins and Pace VXL. Love that naked carbon on the ground, but you really do need some bright colours and contrasting shapes top and bottom when you get into the air.

Black also has a bad habit of showing every surface imperfection up clearly too, although, of course, you won't have any of those......

There's nothing wrong with your TE that a nice long Permagrit can't sort out.....

[Jonathan M]

Funny what happens in the two-year gap since I started this thread...

Now flying a balsa Wot4 and really enjoying the clean convenience of 12mins on 4s 4250 LiPos. Wrote-off my ARTF Acrowot IC due to TX failure in the winter (its 70 four-stroke will in due course go into a new kit version). Building time over the two years was focussed on a Middle Phase aileron version (now my slope hack) and FF scale models (my other 'hobby'!).

So I got the Gangster box down yesterday and began to ponder. Original intention was for IC and - after a wide range of views were expressed earlier in the thread - purchased an OS 35AX. This would be okay but at the bottom end of the range in terms of power, and that's where I left things...

But thinking about the Gangster afresh and - in the light of my positive experience with big LiPo electrics in the Wot4 - now wondering about building it for EP. I've got an Overlander Tornado Thumper 3548 motor sitting spare, and would like to be able to use the same 4s 4250 LiPos as the Wot4 - they're not cheap! Would this be a suitable combination? What would folks who've electrified Gangsters recommend, and any suggestions on what mods to do for EP?

---

Then there's the question of what to do with the 35AX.  My two 'place-markers' so far are:

• SLEC Funfly 54" (kit) specced for 25 to 48
• Chilli Breeze 48" (plan) originally designed for 25 to 36

On the one hand I'm more inclined towards 'pattern' than 'funfly' style flying, but the larger SLEC offering has the advantage of being a full kit with a complete set of accessories, and for which the 35 is in the middle of the range rather than at the top end.

Presume the term 'fun-fly' is more a question of intention than obligation?  If the Funfly is not over-engined with excessive throws, then I assume its down to how I want to fly - trad aeros etc - rather than worry about being hobbled by a design with a relatively short-coupled tail moment etc?

Jon

Edited By Jonathan M on 11/06/2019 10:32:55

[Jonathan M]

Posted by Jonathan M on 11/06/2019 10:22:58:

I've got an Overlander Tornado Thumper 3548 motor sitting spare...

Correction: the spare motor is in fact a 4250 which is larger than the above. Don't have to use this, they're not that expensive, better to get the right size for the Gangster.

[Nigel R]

I would absolutely re-use the 4s lipos for the Gangster. 4250 sounds about the right size.

Chilli Breeze, if you want a pattern type model. It's a superb design. You could get a foam wing made up for it. Fuselage is all straight lines and a piece of cake to build. I had an Irvine 36 in one. Great combination. Fast, smooth, very predictable flyer, can do most any maneuvers up to a true flat spin and knife edge loop. 35AX will be a great powerplant for it, I would think.

The Fun Fly will be slower and "less accurate". I think it has a semi symmetric section and a bit of dihedral. The mid wing layout may make it more build effort than the Chilli. With the bigger wing, it feels more like a 0.46 size design to me. It's a sport model, and a good one, but, I doubt it will fly very much different to your Wot4.

[Nigel R]

Incidentally, this is a "fun fly" model (SLEC's Limbo Dancer):

Slightly different to the "Fun Fly" !

[Jonathan M]

Cheers Nigel for a succinct answer as ever.

Good point about the Slec offering not being a true fun fly, and not much different to the Wot4 - although judging from the piccie on their website here I think it might have a symmetrical wing and no dihedral?

Will almost certainly go EP for the Gangster.

And also order the Chilli Breeze plan... for later!

Jon

PS Out of interest, any pointers to where I could get a foam wing made, and also how to skin it with veneer etc?

Edited By Jonathan M on 11/06/2019 14:27:51

[Peter Christy]

Back in the day, we used to have a local expert who would knock up foam cores at a very reasonable price. I always used to skin mine with 1/16" balsa - much easier than veneer - using copydex as adhesive.

I've actually got a "bow" for cutting foam cores, but decent, lightweight EP seems to be almost unobtainable these days!

Any suggestions where I could get some?

--

Pete

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Jonathan M]

Thanks for the lead Percy... Chilli Breeze plan on its way!

I see there's an Outerzone download for the larger Chilli Wind plus original making article, so this will help fill in the gaps.

[Nigel R]

As per Percy's answer, Billkits seem to get mentioned whenever a foam wing service comes up. The Breeze is almost identical to the Wind, just the odd material size difference, but construction is the same.

Pete What about the DIY sheds? I seem to remember Jablite floor insulation sheets from B&Q being mentioned before?

[Peter Jenkins]

Jonathan,

If you are still searching for a colour scheme for your Gangster, here's what I did for my Gangster 75 which I built from an unbuilt original kit. This is a foam wing and unfortunately is made out of rather heavy foam. All the covering was either Solarfilm or Hobby King sourced. In the air, the scheme is very easy to see with great differentiation between the top and bottom pattern.

[Jonathan M]

Great bright scheme Peter!

Time having moved on, I might think mine afresh, colours and all, but still within a broad 'house-style'. This is how the MP turned out (well visible but a load less hassle than the original concept sketch!):

[Jon Robb]

I recently had a wing and tailplane CNC hot wire cut by Phillip at Cloud Models, I was impressed with the results. As has been mentioned, Bill also is a very good wing cutter.

[Jonathan M]

Thanks for the lead Jon. Spoken to Phillip at Cloud Models. He's done several veneer-covered Chilli Wind wings for other customers and has all the dimensions, so ordering from him. As the original design has torque-rod UC legs mounted under the wing, I'd need to let in decent ply/spruce foundations (or even consider retracts, if they won't add too much weight?) but this is all for another build-thread.

In the meantime, speaking of U/C, hoping I won't have to make up longer legs for the Gangster's electric prop, which I assume will be 12" minimum with my power-train..? Our patch is reasonably good and regularly mown, but I'd want a minimum clearance of at least an inch or so.

[Kim Taylor]

Posted by Jonathan M on 13/06/2019 10:21:24:

In the meantime, speaking of U/C, hoping I won't have to make up longer legs for the Gangster's electric prop, which I assume will be 12" minimum with my power-train..? Our patch is reasonably good and regularly mown, but I'd want a minimum clearance of at least an inch or so.

My Gangster 'Lite' is powered by a .61 4 stroke, using a 12x6 prop, and I've had no issues on our strip, so I think you'd be OK at that. 13" may be pushing it a bit though.

Kim

[Jonathan M]

Thanks Kim

I laid out the component parts and it looked like a 13" prop would be too marginal: only about an inch of clearance. The Overlander 4250 900kv (980W watt) motor and 13" prop (min size) are from my first short-lived Wot4 which drew 50A max with the 4s setup, and statically pulled 23N for a model weighing 5.25lbs. This was way more than powerful in the air, so the replacement Wot has a lighter 4-Max PO-3547 800kv turning a 12x8" prop which actually flies perfectly fine. As the Gangster should weigh a pound less (?) I'll swap the 4250 back into the Wot and use the lighter one with a 12" prop here - with the stock undercarriage supplied.

I mocked-up the supplied very flimsy cowling to see how the whole lot would fit which it does easily, so will probably use this item but beefed-up first with plenty of fibreglass, plus cooling vents.

The F3 former, which is the next back from the firewall, has a cutout for a fuel-tank so adequate clearance for a decent-sized LiPo-tray. I'll recycle the spring-pin from the recovered hatch from the dead Wot4 and make a similar top-access arrangement for the Gangster

[Stuart Z]

Hi,

Finally got underway with mine. Wings done but putting the aileron horns into place they are different to the ones in the instructions, and barely poke above the depth of the aileron. Am I missing something? Never used this horn layout before.

Thanks for any ideas.

S

[Andy Stephenson]

I recently bought the last G63 kit Mick Reeves had in stock, I guess if there is more demand Jim will make another batch.

I built two of the original G63s back in the 70s but only flew one of them, sold the other. The first one had a Veco61 and as a result wasn't particularly spritely but flew nicely until the fateful rolling 8 manoeuvre when the wings folded, probably due to too many hard landings.

The new lite G63 seems very flimsy especially at the back end so I made the tail surfaces out of solid 1/4" balsa. Also like Martin K mentioned elsewhere, I put cross braces in the fuz to stiffen up the torsional rigidity. The ailerons were made fully sheeted. This was because I had decided to install an Irvine 53. After a quick balance check half way through the build showed it was going to be nose heavy with the engine I selected so the tail servos were mounted in the back, this together with the sheet tail surfaces brings the balance point within range nicely. Having put the rudder servo in the back, I had to install an extra servo up front to take care of the steerable nose wheel. Making the tank tubes not foul on the noseleg was also a bit of a fiddle.

I particularly like the triangle slotted wing spar as it makes fitting the ribs easy. There a lot of things I have changed in the build of this kit but then again, I have never built anything exactly to the instructions.

It may not fly till next season but this will give me time to complete the decals as per the original box art as close as I can.

Andy.

[Old Geezer]

My first low winger was a Gangster 63, with a smokey old Meteor 60 on the front, she was a real lady. On advice from the proprietor of our much missed LMS I didn't fit a steerable nose wheel, a blip of throttle would kick the tail round and as soon as she was moving the rudder kept her pointing in roughly the right direction until there was daylight under the wheels. Shame though, easy to build trad' kits are so rarely on the menu now, I'm sure original Gangster 52 & 63 kits would still sell well, and they were so much tougher than these CNC plywood airframes we're stuck with these days - one rough landing can often result in the portion of the fuselage supporting the U/C requiring a major reconstruction (a 3D jigsaw or bodge depending on your talents). Or scrapping it altogether.

Couldn't Peter Miller design us a 40 sized slab sided (no stringers!) constant chord low winger --  for for us Neanderthals, choice of nose or tail wheel - i.e. an M.R. Gangster de nos hours - a tough quick build hack, and access to a veneered foam wing supplier to speed construction would be nice too.

Further back in the thread someone mention a predominantly black colour scheme - these can work well as long as you use large blocks of colour ( ideally white or fluorescent ) on upper and lower wing surfaces - visibility is excellent and you're never uncertain which way up it is.,

Edited By Old Geezer on 15/11/2019 16:11:41