Martyn's Dalotel

[Martyn K]

This is a sort of placeholder posting for my PM Dalotel build which will start officially in January (if I can make space - I currently have 5 builds on the go and one of those is needed for the indoor R/C Scale Nationals). I am hoping to get at least one finished over the Christmas break though - if it warms up enough to get the paints out.

My intention is to add a bit of scale detail, if I can find any decent photos of the original. I will be looking for mainly cockpit detail rather than rivet counting. The real objective is to be able to take it to a scale fly-in and not feel too intimidated. It wont be a contest scale model, but hopefully something that the experts can pick holes in.

It will have retracts and probably an inverted engine. I don't like sidewinder engines sticking out in the breeze for Scale models and try and avoid that look if possible. I may opt for a 4 Stroke 60 for this, I just happen to have an elderly Enya 60FS in stock that may be OK.

Feel free to comment, cajole, nag or tell me I'm being stupid. The worst thing that can happen is that I will stand in the corner and sulk.

I have got the plan and am studying it carefully at the moment. Looking forward to making a proper start but in preparation, I will scan the cut parts and laser print them ready for transfer onto wood using the laser printer dye transfer method. (I may sneakily cut a few parts out if I am bored or waiting for glue to dry - just don't tell anyone).

More to come

Martyn

[McG 6969]

... we'll be there to support you, Martyn.

Of course, you don't have to "count" them, but some rivets should be present or you might have some trouble later in 'The Classroom'...

Cheers

Chris

ps > subscribed already...

[Stuart Z]

Watching this - it’s an aeroplane that I will be doing at some stage.

S

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Built a D.B one ? when i was a nipper, i'll follow your blog Martyn.

[McG 6969]

Hi Martyn,

When you wrote "decent photos of the original", did you mean the DM 165 designed by Michel Dalotel?

If that's the one you mean, there was only one prototype ever built - with registration F-PPZE - and ended 'accidenté'...

Cheers

Chris

[Stuart Z]

Hi

Interesting story here about the Dalotel

**LINK**

There’s not a lot about it on the ‘net but perhaps we could collect data on it?

S

[Martyn K]

Yes, of course there was only one but had two registrations. I have managed to collect about a dozen photos so far including tbe dash but no cockpit shots, seat layout colours etc.

Thanks for tbe links. I'll take a look

[Stuart Z]

Staying tuned, if I find more I’ll revert

S

[McG 6969]

Hi Martyn,

If it can be of any help, this is what I found so far...

There is a 1:3 scale Dalotel built by a French modeller. Very probably Danny's secret half-brother.

The rib profiles he used are identical to the full size.
Profile at the wing root is NACA 23015 and NACA 23009 at the wing tip with a 1° washout.

At the root, the wing incidence is +2,5° relative to the thrust line.

Stab profile is NACA 0012 at 0° incidence.

Fin and rudder profile is NACA 0009.

Regarding the color scheme:

Yellow > in between RAL 1018 and 1021

White > very light ‘ivory’ white

Black > flat black

Tail wheel (original) = Piper Cub (the early single leg type)

Cheers

Chris

[Stuart Z]

Martyn

**LINK**

Photos of control panel included

S

[Erfolg]

Martyn

The necx time we meet, which I think will be on the 12 January, I will be interested in your project.

It is very much the type of model that some how excites me. Reminding me of the Renault Caudron C714. Very much minimal.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter Miller]

When I was designing it I did have a website with a page of photos of the aircraft in bits, not sure if it was during construction of refurbishment.. Can't find it now but will look on my old laptop later.

[Stuart Z]

Peter,

It may have been the article in my first link where the aeroplane was in pieces. The later link has text in French for those that can read it, suspect it was before the aeroplane moved to the UK and became G-BILA. The aeroplane was de-registered in 1985 so looks like it has not been in use since then.

S

[McG 6969]

Hi Martyn,

May I add this, Stuart.

The Dalotel was everything except a commercial success. The Armée de l'Air's choice went to the CAP 'family' for aero-training purposes, so the designer's only hope was to sell it to civilian aero-clubs.

But then there was that huge crisis of the early seventies and Michel Dalotel never sold any. Even the prototype had been financed by Michel's employer, the Poulet family from Colombes, near Paris.

When Michel left the Poulet factory in 1978, the prototype obviously remained their property until they sold it to a Brit named Rob Lamplough in 1981, getting the G-BILA reg in the UK. A few years later - 1985? - the plane had a bad landing due to engine failure, resulting in one destroyed wing, rudder/fin damage and bent undercarriage.

It was never repaired, finally set for sale and was bought in 2006 by Roy Ordorica from Idaho, USA.

Restoration seems on its way as Roy started the rebuild in 2009...

Cheers

Chris

 

Edited By McG 6969 on 02/12/2017 12:23:38

[Stuart Z]

Thanks Chris

Useful feedback and suggests a North American reg and colour scheme may be on the cards

S

[Martyn K]

Thanks all. Very useful info. I really am getting quite enthused about starting this.

I think the USA restoration may have stalled which is a great shame ifbtgatnisvthe case.

Tom. I wasn't aware that Hanno was disqualified - that is a new one for me. Do you know what year that was?

Anyway - there certainly seems to be a great deal of interest in this. That must be good.

Anybody else fancy a Dalotel?

Martyn

[Stuart Z]

Martyn

It is on my list and I do have the wood pack and plan already, (Peter Miller’s plan) but looking towards spring with it as I have 3 others on the go at the moment. Thinking of sourcing a 36 2 stroke for it, similar to Peter’s original, I believe.

Just a question, have you thought where you will be getting all the decals from?

S

[McG 6969]

Regarding Hanno’s disqualification, it was in 1984, Martyn.

Quoted from Bill Glaze >

In 1984, when there was a biplane bonus, 3 flyers entered Steen Skybolts in the TOC. One of them was the fellow from Oklahoma, whose name escapes me; the 3rd person, I never heard his name.

The judging committee was looking these over, and remarked that Prettner's airplane didn't look scale enough to them to qualify. somebody on the committee said: Well, Steen the designer, is here; let's show him the planes and see what he says." The others agreed it was a great idea.

They put all three planes together in a room, and asked Steen to comment. He looked at the first version. He commented: "Gee, that looks just like my airplane, paint and all, just like it was shrunk."

Looking at the second airplane: "Boy, that's a perfect version; paint looks just like (Joe Blow's.)

Looking at the third airplane, (Prettner's): "That sure is a pretty model; what's it supposed to be a model of?"

They sent Prettner home.

Later a model magazine in Germany made a big stink about the whole deal. The article was shown to Bill Bennett, the organizer, who blew his stack, and threatened right then and there to cancel all future TOCs. Shortly after, Prettner wrote to the magazines saying that, in essence, he had tried to get away with a non-scale airplane, and bore no ill will for his rejection. End of story.

Prettner, of course, went on to win another TOC in 1988 with a… Skybolt and that was his last TOC.

Cheers

Chris

[Martyn K]

Thanks Chris

Great story, The way it was written sounds like HP admitted to deliberately cheating..

Very strange

Martyn

[Nigel R]

I think they had a 'scale appearance' type rule which was obviously open to wide degree of interpretation. Presumably the expected lower table finishers could have got away with a lot, but the guys at the top would not be allowed that much leeway. I read it more that Hanno just accepted the judges decision and came back the year after with a closer-to-scale model.

TOC was quite a forward looking contest, very much the antithesis of the rigid F3A style and in many ways set the ground for the current scale 3d aero comps.

I think the Hanno Dalotel was the model preceeding that, and had a couple of 30cc glow engines driving a gearbox to power it?

It should make a great club model at this scale.

[Martyn K]

I think that may be where the 10% rule came from that is used by IMAC. TBH, its not something I like as it can leave a model looking nothing like its full sized version.

Hanno's original 1978 Dalotel had 2 x Webra 60's I think with a reduction drive with about a 1:2 reduction driving a larger prop. However, the engines needed to be modified to run backwards. I believe this was the Bridi version of the Dalotel.

 

Martyn

Edited By Martyn K on 04/12/2017 09:52:50

[Martin McIntosh]

Martyn, you will just love this design to bits when you come to fly it. Having built at least nine of various sizes over the years you could be excused for thinking that it is my favourite ever. Just wished that I had one when I flew comps. because it is totally superior to anything I had at the time; rarely requiring any mixing whatsoever.

I got the original plan from Joe Suddes whom I was staying with at the 1979 world championships in RSA. It was designed around a geared Rossi 60 but I used a ST 60 XRE. I now have two of these motors and still use them.

You will have seen the current ones at the retro events. The 48" one has an OS 25 FX, the 60 size had a YS 63, now replaced with a Laser 80 which does not stick out a silencer, and the 2M version is powered by a YS FZ110. The latter is by far the best and now entering its 19th season.

To boot, it is a very simple model to build. The original plan states 0 deg. tail and +0.9 deg. wing. I tend to use a RAF 30 section.

[Martyn K]

Hi Martin

It was actually seeing yours and Tony Saxby's Dalotels in action that made me decide to build one.

I have also just managed to acquire a copy of the original TOC Bridi/Prettner design as well. Designed for a Webra Speed 91...

[Martin McIntosh]

Hi Martyn, I do not think that the Enya will be up to the job if the model is to be around 67-69" span, even with that huge wing area. My YS 63 struggled a bit and is far more powerful. Go for a Laser 80 if you can.