Electric Cars.

[IDD15]

9 hours ago, Trevor Crook said:

Rich, there are likely to be several YouTube channels with reports on the show, not least the Fully Charged channel.

Trevor

We've just got back from a great day at the show. You need to be here queuing to get in well before 10 am to give you the best chance of booking test drives. The Cinch stand is really good because they had quite a wide range of cars to choose from. We tested the ID3 and a model 3 with them. Cinch test drives lasted 30 minutes over different road types so really quite useful.

 

No booking required for ebikes, scooters etc. Just turn up and have fun.

 

We are there again tomorrow and it's half as good as today it will be brilliant! ?

 

Hope you have a good day.

Idd

 

[MattyB]

On 29/04/2022 at 15:11, Rich Griff said:

Anyone know if this show in Farnborough will be on TV ?

 

 

[john davidson 1]

2 hours ago, Tim Kearsley said:

As far as I know, the only legal electric bikes are limited to provide assistance to your pedaling efforts up to 15.5mph.  Also, it is not legal to have an electric bike that doesn't require you to pedal.  There are of course so-called "dongles" which fool the bike's electronics and provide unlimited motor assistance.  Again, not legal and many bike dealers won't work on the bike, at least the electronics anyway, if it had been so modified. 

But these kits are being sold by the presumably Chinese manufacture as a plus feature of the bike , it has pegs for a pillion too. I had a short try and can see the attraction, the pedals are still there to make it look legal but is styled as lightweight motor bike, and the sales pitch is" oh soon this will be totally legal"

[Trevor]

Thanks folks, I’ve now got a much better idea of what to expect tomorrow. We aren’t planning on any test drives so may aim to arrive a bit later in the hope that the entrance queue may have subsided.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

You can always try an electric bus,,,,,

[IDD15]

Actually they are using electric buses from the car parks. Used them last year in York from the park and ride. Much more pleasant than the rattly old oil burners. ?

 

Idd

Be quiet, smell nice, drive electric.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tim Kearsley]

1 hour ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

You can always try an electric bus,,,,,

 

It's worth noting that all the research so far shows that electric vehicles are far safer than internal combustion vehicles, at least as far as catching fire is concerned.  The news doesn't feature stories about petrol and diesel vehicles catching fire because it happens all the time and isn't considered news-worthy.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Tim Kearsley
Typo

[Cuban8]

3 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said:

 

It's worth noting that all the research so far shows that electric vehicles are far safer than internal combustion vehicles, at least as far as catching fire is concerned.  The news doesn't feature stories about petrol and diesel vehicles catching fire because it happens all the time and isn't considered news-worthy.

Depending on which agenda is being followed, I suppose one can spin this to suit ones particular point of view. I don't remember seeing an IC vehicle on fire for many years now, although the evidence of past fires can be seen on motorways. HGVs being particularly prone to fires, often from overheated brakes rather than from within the engine compartment.

[John Lee]

In the last year reported the official statistics for England recorded 17,518 vehicle fires. https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/fire-statistics-great-britain The London Fire Brigade reported 1,021 petrol & diesel fires and 27 EV fires.

 

If there was a significant additional risk with EV's it will be reflected in your insurance premium. You can easily check similar IC & electric cars on one of the price comparison sites. My insurance premium on my 2020 Kia Soul EV is less than £210pa.

[Tim Kearsley]

19 minutes ago, Cuban8 said:

Depending on which agenda is being followed, I suppose one can spin this to suit ones particular point of view. I don't remember seeing an IC vehicle on fire for many years now, although the evidence of past fires can be seen on motorways. HGVs being particularly prone to fires, often from overheated brakes rather than from within the engine compartment.

I totally agree.  The fact is that fires in any vehicle are pretty rare these days.  I was pointing to research that indicates that EV fires are extremely rare and occur at a much lower frequency than petrol or diesel fires, which are also uncommon.

[Tim Kearsley]

4 minutes ago, John Lee said:

In the last year reported the official statistics for England recorded 17,518 vehicle fires. https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/fire-statistics-great-britain The London Fire Brigade reported 1,021 petrol & diesel fires and 27 EV fires.

 

If there was a significant additional risk with EV's it will be reflected in your insurance premium. You can easily check similar IC & electric cars on one of the price comparison sites. My insurance premium on my 2020 Kia Soul EV is less than £210pa.

 

Very eloquently put John.  The insurance premium on my Tesla Model 3 Performance is just over £300.

[EarlyBird]

1 hour ago, Cuban8 said:

Depending on which agenda is being followed, I suppose one can spin this to suit ones particular point of view.

That's a good point as I have noticed a couple of members who introduce the risk of fires when ever batteries or electric flight is being discussed. Is this due to a media obsession with battery fires which gives a false impression of the true risks? I put it down to click bait, just a story to read.

 

Steve

[Engine Doctor]

51 minutes ago, John Lee said:

In the last year reported the official statistics for England recorded 17,518 vehicle fires. https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/fire-statistics-great-britain The London Fire Brigade reported 1,021 petrol & diesel fires and 27 EV fires.

 

If there was a significant additional risk with EV's it will be reflected in your insurance premium. You can easily check similar IC & electric cars on one of the price comparison sites. My insurance premium on my 2020 Kia Soul EV is less than £210pa.

It's statistics again . Yes there are many more ic vehicle fires reported by fire authorities but there are many many more ic vehicles on the road. Also take into account how these fires play out . An ic will usually start small and give plenty of warning to pull over and passengers to get out an although reported as a fire it is in many cases quite minor and has self extinguished. I have attended hundreds of ic car fires in my working life as a fireman in the LFB and most had self extinguished by the time we arrived on scene. I retired before the newer generation EV became available and the only electric vehicle fires I attended were an occasional milk float or fork lift. They used tottaly different batteries that can't really be compared to lithium cells.

 

 An electric fire on the other hand usually starts with a jet of high temp flammable gas coming  from the battery usually situated in the floor of the vehicle and flashes up in an instant at far higher temp than ic fuel posing a far greater threat to passengers or bystanders.

Also fuel fires are infinitely more extinguishable than an electrical ev fire that will continue to erupt until the cells are all used up .

The addition of ethanol to fuel does make extinguishing petrol more tricky but fire brigades now have high pressure hose reels to deal with this.

 

Don't believe statistics especially those used by Pro EV companies or gov departments pushing for " Zero emissions status" Statistics can be made to say what you want.

Take a look at some cctv clips posted on YouTube showing how violently a EV catches fire at charging stations with little or no warning !

[Tim Kearsley]

The research I referred to was quoting fires per 100,000 vehicles, so nothing to do with the fact that there are more IC cars on the road.  I agree that battery fires are more difficult to extinguish.  The point I was making is that battery fires in EVs are so rare that they make the news, plus the individuals who, for whatever reason, are anti-EV pick up any incident and spread it via social media.  Statistics can certainly be made to prove what you like, by taking things out of context and selecting the data you use.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I don't know how a ratio of 1021:27 reflects against vehicle totals but I wonder how hybrid vehicles have been accounted for in the LFB statistic quoted? Also, the fire risk probably increases with older and less well maintained vehicles, skewing the statistics in the favour of electric vehicles which I have to assume will be younger on average.

[Rich Griff]

New rules about EV charging coming in quite soon, with the aid of smart meters...

[Don Fry]

Just remember, fire service statistics will record as a vehicle fire;

A vehicle fire because a yob set it on fire,

a  car involved in a fire not having a starting point in the car

………………

The use of the statistics for a petrol vs battery debate ought to use statistics made to compare like for like. 

[Don Fry]

Mind, I read this morning, Paris, France bus company has suspended the use of a fleet of electric buses, after two caught fire. Basically 2 more that expected. But I reckon it will be found to be design specific, as expected in new designs. 
 

A problem of new designs, remember the trouble Ford America had with designing a petrol tank that did not crisp its customers?

[MattyB]

On 29/04/2022 at 12:59, Rich Griff said:

…Charging points, leads, sockets and plugs, mix in a bit of rain....exciting times me thinks.

 

Hope they gave though of that senario...

 

Do you honestly believe that they haven’t thought of the issue of water ingress? Tesla alone have more than 30k superchargers worldwide (Link), and there are ~96k chargers in the US and ~30k the UK (Link). Presumably according to you they are all “death traps” that the companies and governments worldwide have collectively “forgot” from a health and safety perspective? ?

 

2 hours ago, Rich Griff said:

New rules about EV charging coming in quite soon, with the aid of smart meters...

Do you have any actual sources that substantiate this, or is it just another example of the FUD you consistently post on this forum similar to that on electric power and lithium battery safety (despite admitting that you do not use them yourself as yet)? 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by MattyB

[PatMc]

1 hour ago, Don Fry said:

 

 

A problem of new designs, remember the trouble Ford America had with designing a petrol tank that did not crisp its customers?

Yep, the classic Mustang - interesting to read the reasons behind it's known fire hazard danger from relatively minor accidents in this article,

[Rich Griff]

Exactly where did I say death traps ?

 

Water is not a conducter, is it not ?

 

The stuff that falls from the sky is water plus other stuff ?

 

Water ingress can cause havoc, condensation within the cabin and non waterproof electrical connections, add some frost, misteriouse faults appear. Not all contacts are gold.

 

I have come across several "water proof" electrical connectors, pull out and reconnectable types, that "fill up with water " !

 

I have even known petrol tank caps that are by design, water traps, that allow water into the tank.

 

The looming charging rules challenge was on you tube. A really good April the first just like nwp hq on fire ! The roof was actually on fire !

 

The you tube article, I will try to find it for you....I watched it this morning...

 

Mot abd tax exempt, yeah I was told that was FUD too.

 

As to not using model electric propulsion ( for planes, or real size ev cars for that matter) , I know the Titanic sank. I didn't have to be "on it" at the time to know that.

 

I am told a lipo damaged in a crash, punctured outer, could/is a danger ?

 

Is that correct please ?

[Rich Griff]

eFIXX...

 

UK government to shut down peak hours ev charging...

 

Menergy, Yorkshire...

 

Gone thru parliament ?

 

An "Act of Parliament" now, so law ?

 

Dr. Chris Horn. Sorry if that's wrong spelling Chris.

 

Porn MP has resigned, more FUD probably.

 

I have a criticism of you tube, display the date the article was posted please.

[Don Fry]

For the older brethren here, FUD is an abbreviation for 

 

Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. Just looked it up. Thank you Rich for todays learning opportunity.

[Tim Kearsley]

I doubt the shutting down of peak hours charging will bother that many EV owners.  Like most I suspect, I charge my car on an off-peak "cheap" rate.  In my case,  it's between 0030 and 0430 and it costs me 5p per kWh at the moment.  It works out at about 1.5p per mile, which is one of several reasons I love my electric car!

[Rich Griff]

Old dogs etc....the Titanic was not unsinkable, it sank !

 

I am not anti EV or anti electric power for models etc.., I have been using nicad and similar for years with no problems, but the " chemistry" popularly used these days needs proper tlc, else it has the potential to destroy stuff in quiet a spectacular way, even areas of sssi status.

 

If this is FUD, why are charging bags and safes used for these batteries ?

 

Back to ev cars, see my post of a few days ago, perfect for the lads commute to work, just need the money to adopt it.

 

They are off to a gig in Manchester tomorrow, with an overnight stop. Hopefully the *digs" will have an ev charge point, or car park below the rooms window to dangle a charge lead from ?

 

They have a petrol car at the moment.....