Paul De Tourtoulon Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 The Delorean out performed hundreds of cars £20.000 to £100.000 in 40 years,,,,? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 10 hours ago, Geoff S said: I used to do a lot of motorcycling. They were my only means of transport for years and I competed in trials both solo and sidecar. However, when we started sailing, we also started pedal cycling for fitness and we both cycle commuted - my wife about 12 miles/day and me 26, and sometimes 50 in summer on a nice day. I've now converted our bikes to have electrical assistance and get a range of 100km by only using the battery when necessary and, even then, at the lowest level I can manage. We have a diesel Vauxhall Astra estate but do very few miles. I think it will be our last car (we're both in our 80s) but I'd really like to go electric if we do change it. I bought a Nissan Leaf a year ago. 11,000+ miles later I think it is brilliant. Plug it in my wall charger at night, - 240 mile range in the morning (OK 180 miles on a frosty morning with heated seats, windscreens, et all on!) No road tax, cheap insurance and servicing. Oh, and nearly 500 miles per gallon, equivalent cost. 0-60mph in 6.9 seconds linear acceleration. 217 Bhp equivalent. Yes, the National charging network is woefully inadequate but then I have never needed to charge at a public charging point, despite regularly making 200mile round trips to see my grand children. (I do top up at my daughters house from the garage 13A socket in the wintertime however!). A basic Leaf is now £28k (I bought my range topping model for £32k a year ago (Tesla, eat your heart out). The important bit is that is a joy to drive, clean, quiet, refined, stable and fast. My three Labradors love it too, as there is plenty of room in the boot! EVs are not for everyone, especially if you can’t charge at home but if you can they make a lot of sense, for some people at least. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Well said Piers. On top of all that, we went to the cinema yesterday afternoon, I plugged the Tesla in to a Pod Point charger in the car park and in the three hours we were in the cinema it took the battery from 42% to 87%, all for free! As a side note, a club-mate at our flying field yesterday told me that he'd read an article recently that reckoned that BMW drivers are no longer the most hated - that honour has gone to Tesla drivers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said: Well said Piers. On top of all that, we went to the cinema yesterday afternoon, I plugged the Tesla in to a Pod Point charger in the car park and in the three hours we were in the cinema it took the battery from 42% to 87%, all for free! As a side note, a club-mate at our flying field yesterday told me that he'd read an article recently that reckoned that BMW drivers are no longer the most hated - that honour has gone to Tesla drivers! I don’t hate you Tim ❤️, even if you do drive a Tesla ? ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 At least Tesla's have working indicators fitted ! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Until 'range anxiety' sets in ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 I have no axe to grind here. I might buy an electric car at some time in the future but with the relatively low mileage that I do with my (formerly environmentally friendly) diesel with £30 annual road tax, it would take many years to break even (and see my penultimate paragraph). Charging, while not impossible for me, would require some major reorganisation of my parking/vehicle storage arrangement plus complex (and no doubt expensive) electrical installation work - and I certainly sympathise with the increasing number of people with properties in unsuitable locations. Some major infrastructure changes needed to accommodate flat dwellers and on-street parkers… Green? Maybe not as much as it would appear at first sight with significantly more environmental impact in manufacturing electric cars and batteries but I agree that city dwellers will benefit from removal of pollution at the point of use. The elephant in the room though is how long will it be before a method of taxing electric car use will be implemented - either direct taxation or via stealth means such as smart metering of electricity. Lots to consider before jumping in to make the switch. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 57 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: Maybe not as much as it would appear at first sight with significantly more environmental impact in manufacturing electric cars and batteries Well... At some point "the average car's lifespan" will be less impact with electric than it would with petrol/diesel. I don't know that we are there yet (especially for the cars carting around 350mile range batteries). Maybe for a 30/40kWh pack and 100hp motor, like the basic Leaf, that's already 'better than ICE'. I honestly don't know. And as the link I posted states, the source of the electric you use to charge it with matters (not that most of us have any real control over that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 While you don't have direct control over how the electricity you use is generated - it all comes to you via the same wires after all - you do have indirect control. If you buy your electricity from a 100% green supplier then they only buy from renewable sources, which means in the long term a greater % of green electricity in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Well there's that. Although as you note, it's not the actual volts that arrive at your house that are green, just that some green ones have found their way into the grid somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Absolutely Nigel. I also have solar PV on my roof, which reduces the "dirty" energy that I use further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Taylor Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said: While you don't have direct control over how the electricity you use is generated - it all comes to you via the same wires after all - you do have indirect control. If you buy your electricity from a 100% green supplier then they only buy from renewable sources, which means in the long term a greater % of green electricity in the mix. What happens if more of us sign up to 'green' suppliers than can be serviced from renewable sources? Serious question - not trying to pick a fight Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 8 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said: I also have solar PV on my roof, which reduces the "dirty" energy that I use further. Devil's advocate: How are the lifetime environmental costs of solar PV looking these days? China made panels (coal electric, poor mining practices, etc etc) with UK sunlight levels didn't look so good last time I checked - things may have changed though. Panels manufactured elsewhere (clean electric in germany) were pricey and had massive payback times - again, things may have changed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 I don't know about the environmental cost of the panels i bought Nigel. From memory, they're branded as Spanish, but what their origin is I don't know. Regarding payback - a long time! In our case, payback wasn't the driver. We are in our mid-sixties and have capital sitting in accounts earning almost nothing, so it seemed sensible to use some and reduce our regular outgoings. The installer calculated 12 years but it depends on many variables of course. The way energy prices are going, that 12 years may reduce. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 15 minutes ago, Kim Taylor said: What happens if more of us sign up to 'green' suppliers than can be serviced from renewable sources? Serious question - not trying to pick a fight Kim Good question. No idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said: The way energy prices are going, that 12 years may reduce. That's certainly true enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Whilst out shopping today, I was reminded of the e-bike posts a couple of days ago. A chap emerged from a side turning on what looked like a standard push-bike, but with an I.c. engine in the middle of the frame. I couldn't see how it was connected to the wheels. As he got onto the main road, he pedalled like the clappers, the engine fired up very noisily, and he took off up the hill at an impressive rate of knots without pedalling. No number plates or helmet, and I suspect far from legal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 51 minutes ago, Nigel R said: Devil's advocate: How are the lifetime environmental costs of solar PV looking these days? China made panels (coal electric, poor mining practices, etc etc) with UK sunlight levels didn't look so good last time I checked - things may have changed though. Panels manufactured elsewhere (clean electric in germany) were pricey and had massive payback times - again, things may have changed... There's some info here, possibly a little biased in favour of PV. But as more PV is installed then less carbon is used in the manufacture of the panels so they become even cleaner over time. And at the moment China is installing PV just about quicker than anywhere else. We have a few fields near us with a PV array, the grass cutting is done by the 4 legged version, so woolly jumpers and food are a by product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Tim Kearsley said: I don't know about the environmental cost of the panels i bought Nigel. From memory, they're branded as Spanish, but what their origin is I don't know. Regarding payback - a long time! In our case, payback wasn't the driver. We are in our mid-sixties and have capital sitting in accounts earning almost nothing, so it seemed sensible to use some and reduce our regular outgoings. The installer calculated 12 years but it depends on many variables of course. The way energy prices are going, that 12 years may reduce. We've paid for our solar panels after 10 years when compared with the now non-existent Feed In Tariff (FIT). Of course, the cost of any electricity we used during the day is also reduced (sometimes to zero). What the pay-back period, without the FIT payments, will be is more difficult to calculate. I'm just glad we opted to install them at a time when our savings were effectively reducing in value because the interest rates were so low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Seen some illegal E bikes around, but here was something different. In the 70's I was learning to fly gliders [ the old T21 ] at our local airfield when along came a chap with hang glider to which he had attached an engine that drove two ducted each side the whole lot mounted just beneath the wing at the pivot point. He said he needed someone to help him run with the now heavy glider until it was up to flying speed and he could lift off. Being a strong farm lad I offered my service as launch booster. Try as we might with much effort running along the field and laughter from those watching the contraption never left the ground. A few weeks later someone in South Wales put an engine in a 3 wheeled frame and the trike microlite was born. Our intrepid pilot then fitted his engine fan unit to a push bike, apparently an engine has to drive a road wheel for a vehicle to require road tax, mot, insurance ect. The local cops were tolerant for the while but eventually suggested noise and the possibility of small children being sucked into the fans would result in prosecution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Gates Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 I had to laugh the other day driving home from work in the company van. I was on a dual carriage way and in a lay by was parked a Nissan Leaf. Nowt funny about that. In front of said car was a steel tube framed generator powered by a 4 stroke B&S engine, the likes of which can be seen on building sites. The generator was hooked up to the car! Green car?? In this instance I think not. It got me thinking - if the generator was not in the car, would it have made the trip it was on? How long would the car have to sit there to get enough meaningful charge to continue its journey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 15 minutes ago, Andy Gates said: I had to laugh the other day driving home from work in the company van. I was on a dual carriage way and in a lay by was parked a Nissan Leaf. Nowt funny about that. In front of said car was a steel tube framed generator powered by a 4 stroke B&S engine, the likes of which can be seen on building sites. The generator was hooked up to the car! Green car?? In this instance I think not. It got me thinking - if the generator was not in the car, would it have made the trip it was on? How long would the car have to sit there to get enough meaningful charge to continue its journey? Sounds like a Top Gear stunt. Ha Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Nigel R said: Well... At some point "the average car's lifespan" will be less impact with electric than it would with petrol/diesel. I don't know that we are there yet (especially for the cars carting around 350mile range batteries). Maybe for a 30/40kWh pack and 100hp motor, like the basic Leaf, that's already 'better than ICE'. I honestly don't know. And as the link I posted states, the source of the electric you use to charge it with matters (not that most of us have any real control over that). Even basic Leafs have 62kW batteries and 160kW motors (213hp) so I don’t know where you get 100hp from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 (edited) Basic Leaf 39kWh battery (150PS), higher spec 59kWh battery (217PS). I was looking at them yesterday! Edited May 4, 2022 by Ron Gray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 32 minutes ago, Ron Gray said: Basic Leaf 39kWh battery (150PS), higher spec 59kWh battery (217PS). I was looking at them yesterday! Thanks Ron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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