Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 If we think of the changes that have happened inside our own little hobby. 20-25 years ago we would point & laugh openly at flyers who turned up with electric models before enjoying the massive power advantage provided by our IC engines. Not quite the same now a days though is it? (& I speak as a dedicated IC flyer) Very different I know but perhaps a pointer to where things are headed....look at the Tesla cars available now...expensive yes but so was the Motor Car when it was first invented The issue about electric cars for me is a) where will all the power come from? & b) how will the existing wiring cope? I live in a little cul de sac with 8 houses in it.....if each house has 2 cars to charge up that's 16 great big batteries to charge overnight.....will the cables running down the middle of the road to each house suffice to carry all that power? Somehow I doubt it.... I don't think we should write off the hydrogen fuel cell or even burning hydrogen in a conventional engine as a possible way forward either. Right now there is little incentive to invest in such new technologies....in the future...who knows!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Posted by Paul Marsh on 21/01/2018 16:41:27: Electric cars won't be happening any time soon. They are impractical for general use, just short hops to the shops and back, insufficient charge points and confusing pay system. This is the Mahindra Reva Electric car from Bangalore (marketed in the UK as the G-Wiz) . It featured lead acid batteries and a DC motor. The same 1960's milk float technology I mentioned in my post! (top speed 20mph) As dead as a dinosaur before it was marketed! Your new friend's problem seemed to revolve around his credit card not being accepted rather than the viability of his car. If electric cars become cost effective without subsidy (purchase price, running cost, resale) then charging points will become more common than filling stations, and if the charge densities increase to something approaching the theoretical figures postulated (a big 'if' admittedly) perhaps 500miles vs 100miles, I think electric cars will become very popular. Just think Paul, in a few years time you may be cruising around one dark night running on just fumes, passing endless EV charging points with not a single filling station in sight . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 like them or not legislation and availability will eventually mean electric cars will be Hobson's choice. although I did fail to see the appeal of the driverless motorcycle featured on the BBC program "click" Edited By Phil 9 on 21/01/2018 17:41:26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Posted by Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 21/01/2018 17:01:45: If we think of the changes that have happened inside our own little hobby. 20-25 years ago we would point & laugh openly at flyers who turned up with electric models before enjoying the massive power advantage provided by our IC engines. Not quite the same now a days though is it? (& I speak as a dedicated IC flyer) Very different I know but perhaps a pointer to where things are headed....look at the Tesla cars available now...expensive yes but so was the Motor Car when it was first invented The issue about electric cars for me is a) where will all the power come from? & b) how will the existing wiring cope? I live in a little cul de sac with 8 houses in it.....if each house has 2 cars to charge up that's 16 great big batteries to charge overnight.....will the cables running down the middle of the road to each house suffice to carry all that power? Somehow I doubt it.... 150 years ago houses were lit with oil lamps and candles, then gas lighting and then electric arrived. More recently fibre optic replaced telephone lines (my apologies to anyone still living with dial up!). If the demand is there the infrastructure will arrive, including uprated electricity supplies. Paul said electric cars won't be arriving anytime soon. How soon is soon? Lithium batteries only became mainstream about 20 years ago. Mobile phones? Maybe not in my lifetime but certainly in my children's. It wasn't that long ago when the Royal Aeronautical Society experts pronounced that airliners would never be able to cross the Atlantic ocean non-stop because of the huge amount of fuel required. They said the wings would break off under the weight. They hadn't anticipated the arrival of the jet engine and the pressurised cabin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Posted by Percy Verance on 21/01/2018 17:47:09: A driverless motorcycle Phil? About as much use a solar powered torch......... I was being a little flippant but the technology allows the driver control unless the sensors detect danger and the computer takes control away from the rider. but it is capable of completing the whole journey without any input from the rider. future cars will have similar tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn44 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Driverless cars (propulsion not as yet decided) may be the future. No you don’t own one, you dial one up, along it comes, off you go to wherever. Added bonus no parking worries, or charges. Repeat as required. I’m guessing in 15-20 years people won’t own a car except for petrol heads & motor sport enthusiasts etc. Who knows, it’s just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Posted by Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 21/01/2018 17:01:45: The issue about electric cars for me is a) where will all the power come from? & b) how will the existing wiring cope? I live in a little cul de sac with 8 houses in it.....if each house has 2 cars to charge up that's 16 great big batteries to charge overnight.....will the cables running down the middle of the road to each house suffice to carry all that power? Somehow I doubt it.... But the cables are good enough to run every bodies electric cookers together for Sunday lunch, most people will charge overnight when the peak loads are down, especially if pricing encourages this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 IC engines won't be phased out because there are billions to be made from selling it. BP would go bust, as well as Shell, and there would be less tax from fuel for the government, society as we know would collapse, like Mad Max scenario. Electric cars will be around, eventually, but not for a while yet... Love to see how far I would get towing a caravan on electric, what about commercial vehicles, people going about there business. time is money, and I don't think a company will want to keep paying a site engineer to sit at a service station whilst his van/truck recharges, Yeah, right! Won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Posted by Cliff 1959 on 21/01/2018 16:33:25: I can see a time when nobody will 'own' a car anyway, you'll just call one from your app. and a driverless vehicle will arrive at your door, pop in your credit card and destination and off you go, simple. (As long as you can get a couple of models in the back of course) And not pay a great surcharge to have they greasy, smelly aircraft smells removed. And in my case loads of dogs as well. I would not get in my car as a volunteer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 lAnd Paul, look at a history of the Luddites. Technologies will come to fruit. In the case of the rollout of driverless technologies, it stats next year, or with a bit of drift, 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Paul, when I was a teenager in the 1950s I worked near London right by the A1. It was a single carriageway except where it passed DeHavillands in Hatfleld and I happily cycled along it on my old 3 speed hub gear pedal cycle to night school because it was so quiet in the evenings. I met and old chap who could remember when it was little more than a cart track (no cars at all., just horse drawn traffic) but look at it now. Dual carriageway, multi-lane all the way from the M25 north to Scotland. Times change and the rate of change is increasing. Never say 'Won't happen' because it will, one way or another. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Saunders Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Reading these posts the biggest draw backs of batteries as we know them at this time are capacity to weight and charge times. If, when we overcome these then problems then who knows ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 This is interesting if you have 20 minutes spare: https://youtu.be/9k7k3Mzknm8 My personal feeling is the infrastructure will gradually be put in place, and the price of EVs will fall until there is a tipping point when suddenly the sales of i.c. powered cars plummet. Shell are already installing EV charging points as a trial in some garages, and eventually if you run an old i.c. powered car you will have much more difficulty finding somewhere to sell you fuel for it. The range issue is on the brink of being solved, prices continue to fall, the main obstacles to mass adoption will be the charging time and charging infrastructure, but who can predict what we will have in 10 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Load of cash to the winner. And Ford, not much mentioned in the race, I read this week, have a billion dollars in their electrification, driverless war chest. That is a lot of directors bonus payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Saunders Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Hybred cars of course will still have their place for a while, in the urban enviroment they will have benifits if operated on electric and ic on long motorway hauls were they are running more efficiently. There will be even lower emmisions to this type of car also with improvements to the battery technology ie charging times reduced from running in ic mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Hi Trevor here's a better link to your video. Hi Geoff Sleath - All that talk about the A1 from years ago, got me thinking Geoff and I know off a video of the A1 from London to Grantham - from those days of old you talk about. I work most days on that stretch of A1, the firm I work for started in 1926 and is based in Oakham. The son of the firm is still alive and in his 90's. When I shown him the film and it bought back many memories of the road to him, when he drove for his mum and dad. Edited By Mark Kettle 1 on 21/01/2018 21:02:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Just checked some figures - last year renewables accounted for 29% of our electricity, nuclear 21%. Coal was 7%, gas 40%. Not sure where the other 3% came from! Wind farms generated twice as much as coal over the year, and solar exceeded coal for 182 days. All this from the Financial Times. It's a shame the government doesn't mandate solar panels on the roofs of all suitable new builds, together with storage batteries. This would add only a couple of percent to the average price of a house in my neck of the woods. A friend has 6kW panels on his roof, and doesn't use any gas in the summer, as his panels heat his hot water via an immersion heater. He also makes money from his feed-in tarrif. Regarding cars, if these panels generated 2kW for 8 hours, the resulting 16kWh could give an electric car 64 miles worth of range - EVs seem to achieve around 4 miles per kWh. If the average annual mileage is 10k, that's about 30 miles a day, so with storage batteries to save the daytime generated power, enabling overnight charging, many people could run their car with zero fuel cost and carbon emissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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