Chris Channon Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Good afternoon all, just a quickie, can anyone fly a turbine model ? ie no A B or C cert just a competant flyer ?Thanks allChris C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Percy is right, most clubs will recommend a B cert for turbine pilots. I personally think this is a bit daft as you can have a pilot who has got his B with a foamy acrowot but has never flown anything else. Equally you can have a pilot who has flown every model under the sun but has no B cert to his name. Tell me which one you would rather have flying the jet. The problem is that while a B certificate is not a true representation of the flying ability of any given person it is also the only means available to try and ensure that at least some standard has been achieved. Its an imperfect system to say the least. In essence though, if you can demonstrate sufficient aptitude and understanding of the aircraft, and have sufficient experience then there is nothing that should stop you flying a jet. Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 11/05/2018 19:11:17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 11/05/2018 19:10:49: Percy is right, most clubs will recommend a B cert for turbine pilots. I personally think this is a bit daft as you can have a pilot who has got his B with a foamy acrowot but has never flown anything else. Equally you can have a pilot who has flown every model under the sun but has no B cert to his name. Tell me which one you would rather have flying the jet. The problem is that while a B certificate is not a true representation of the flying ability of any given person it is also the only means available to try and ensure that at least some standard has been achieved. Its an imperfect system to say the least. In essence though, if you can demonstrate sufficient aptitude and understanding of the aircraft, and have sufficient experience then there is nothing that should stop you flying a jet. Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 11/05/2018 19:11:17 Yep I'm of same opinion, judge the pilot before any restrictions get put on, large petrols, large scale tricky to fly stuff, small quickies that go like a bat out of hell etc etc. Some B flyers about, you wouldn't like to be near on a field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Yep Percy, take nothing for granted and use your heads, no B cert wouldn't prevent you flying a jet at our club, having a B wouldn't guarantee you could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Posted by Percy Verance on 11/05/2018 19:35:17: I'd completely agree John. The current scheme isn't perfect, but it's all there is. I guess it's pretty much down to individual clubs to guide/nurture pilots to decent standards of flying ability too. Ultimately it is in the club's interest. The LMA have their own scheme, which does perhaps go a bit further than does the BMFA one. And the LMA of course have their scheme which entails inspections of the model build at several stages of it's construction. I think the inspection scheme only applies to models above a certain weight (20Kg?) rather than gas turbine powered models as such. I think at Ashbourne we require not only a 'B' certificate but also an assessment of ability (I'm not sure about the assessment because I have no interest in model gas turbines having worked at RR for 30 odd years ). Plus there are times of the year when gas turbines are banned because of potential fire risk when crops are ripening. I think other clubs have a ban when crops are dry and a fire risk in the event of a landing out because of either a crash or an engine surge/flame out. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 A valid 'B' certificate does at least show that the owner has taken a little trouble to learn the basics when he turns up at a fly-in. No guarantees, but at least it's an element of risk reduction. My take on turbos is that they are wonderful technological acheivements in a similar way to 3D helicopters, but for me it's all getting to near to a full time job or an obsession to develop, construct and maintain them, not a hobby. Too much dedication! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultymate Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Yep I'm of same opinion, judge the pilot before any restrictions get put on, large petrols, large scale tricky to fly stuff, small quickies that go like a bat out of hell etc etc. Some B flyers about, you wouldn't like to be near on a field. In this case you must surely worry about the veracity of the examiners that gave the flyers their "B" certificates in the first place Edited By Ultymate on 12/05/2018 09:59:54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 I agree in principal Bob but I have seen many many B cert pilots who cannot land to save their lives, especially in a crosswind. To touch on Percy's comments about the man with the turbine, all of my models have a single battery/switch/rx setup with no backup. The oldest of these models is now in its 8th season and looking further back I have never lost a model to battery/power failure. I do however keep an eye on battery capacity to try and head off any cell failure etc. It it possible this chap did not? did he use a battery of too low a capacity for the model? we don't know and its possible he was caught out. Equally, he could have suffered 'radio failure'. Bob is quite right though. I have a fleet of 9 airworthy models comprising sport, scale, and largeish scale (80'' warbirds). To keep them airworthy and in a condition I am happy with is almost a full time occupation and certainly my winter deferred maintenance list took me most of the winter. The more complex the toy, they more it needs to be looked after. But this brings us right back to square one. Be it flying standard, maintenance of the model and its systems, or technical understanding of the model in question, there is no way to test a person adequately and completely in one sitting. This is why I believe that it is better for clubs to make a judgement of a persons ability over a longer period of time and that is what I push for at my club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Percy is correct with his analogy of bad driving . Pass test in a Fiat panda then a few weeks later drive a 150MPH sports car ,make of car immaterial as they can all be dangerous. This holds true with a "B" cert. you can pass it with a simple model then if you club allows go fly a turbine. In both cases the only qualification for the high powered model or the car and insurance. apparently insurance it seems is often overlooked certainly it seems in the UK if our news and TV documentaries are to be believed . Its up to a club to police their patch and members ability to fly certain types of model . A robust induction and ability check can sort this very easily Our club doesn't allow the flying of turbines due to local residents as turbines have a large noise footprint and the fire hazard already mention in another post.. As for the pilot mentioned in the original post claiming he lost his "B" in a house move , a simple phone call to the BMFA or Status request form sent to them would have spotted the "untruth" . I would at that point ask him to leave the club for lying . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Kremen Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Full size aviation requires certain regular/annual checks of fitness to fly. These include both physical (health) & practical 'check ride' examination. Whilst it is probably impractical to demand these of model pilots, continual assessment by the club CFI and its Instructors, may highlight a member who's models may fall below reasonable safe standards and flying abilities that perhaps need the attention of 'a friendly word' to the wise. The demographic of our hobby, (with notable exceptions), is older and as has been mentioned in other forum posts, brings associated issues concerning health. Being in the 'older' group myself, I hope I would be the first to ensure my eyesight and general awareness was up to at least minimum and hopefully better standards for model flying. Whilst I have flown fast, tricky models as a youngster, reaction times do change over time and if that means adapting to slower, more forgiving & sedate models to stay flying then so be it. Edited By Capt Kremen on 12/05/2018 11:07:49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Percy I never assumed you were targeting me, I was just noting that the systems in place are only as good as the person looking after them. Your man seems to have not been up to the task on many fronts. Capt, we had a situation recently at my club where a chap had been repeatedly noted by several members as being a bit of a liability. Working out how to proceed was difficult as its not easy to tell an established pilot 'sorry mate, you aint any good and we fear for our lives when you turn up'. We were as diplomatic as possible but he still was not a happy bunny and took great offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Channon Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Thank you very much all, I just wanted to make sure i will be adhering to the rules.Thanks againChris.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Yes a Chief examiner can conduct a B on his own. We have had a similar situation where two members from our club took their B test with our club examiners only to be told by another club they belonged to that " it didn't count" . Even the BMFA said it was up to them whether or not they accepted the qualification ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Posted by Engine Doctor on 12/05/2018 15:33:19: Yes a Chief examiner can conduct a B on his own. We have had a similar situation where two members from our club took their B test with our club examiners only to be told by another club they belonged to that " it didn't count" . Even the BMFA said it was up to them whether or not they accepted the qualification ? On what basis would a club refuse to accept any A/S qualification? I'd love to hear their justification in refusing to accept the validity of a BMFA member's A/B/C or whatever, given that the member has satisified all the requirements of the achievement scheme test and with a BMFA registered examiner. Would there be the same reluctance if the member was passed by an ACE? It's this sort of club political junk that we just don't need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 I refer you to John Stones posts. A club can do as it wishes. Whether it a safety, or dinosaur related behaviour is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.