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Flying a Turbine


Chris  Channon
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Posted by Ultymate on 12/05/2018 09:57:45:

Yep I'm of same opinion, judge the pilot before any restrictions get put on, large petrols, large scale tricky to fly stuff, small quickies that go like a bat out of hell etc etc. Some B flyers about, you wouldn't like to be near on a field.

In this case you must surely worry about the veracity of the examiners that gave the flyers their "B" certificates in the first place

Edited By Ultymate on 12/05/2018 09:59:54

I have seen some dreadful B flyers Brian, so have many others, I've flown with some lads who have an A and some who have nothing and I would fly anywhere and anytime with them.

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Posted by Cuban8 on 12/05/2018 18:42:36:
Posted by Engine Doctor on 12/05/2018 15:33:19:

Yes a Chief examiner can conduct a B on his own. We have had a similar situation where two members from our club took their B test with our club examiners only to be told by another club they belonged to that " it didn't count" . Even the BMFA said it was up to them whether or not they accepted the qualification ?

On what basis would a club refuse to accept any A/S qualification? I'd love to hear their justification in refusing to accept the validity of a BMFA member's A/B/C or whatever, given that the member has satisified all the requirements of the achievement scheme test and with a BMFA registered examiner. Would there be the same reluctance if the member was passed by an ACE?

It's this sort of club political junk that we just don't need.

Nothing at all to do with a club refusing to accept a AS scheme qualification, the scenarios are many, took his her B with a model just over weight limit that tootles about, then goes n buys a turbine, would you just blindly say o.k you're free to fly it, or look further if they're safe to do so ? if you did say o.k go fly you have a B, it goes pear shaped, insurance claim, person or property got injured, someones messed up who do you blame ? BMFA for recommending a B to fly turbines, or the club for not political junking on the grounds of safety first ?

Old fella has a B, he sees younger lads flying their big petrols, you know his eyes/reactions ain't what they used to be, but he's a nice fella, popular at the club, and he really wants one, last thing you want to do is hurt his feelings, what do you do ? Happened a few times at our club, pilot has accepted help from the younger pilots who've stood with them, not been stopped flying has he ? common sense has been applied though, I reckon the BMFA would agree.

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  • 5 months later...

I wonder if a possible approach for clubs would be to operate a 'risk-assessment /planned progression' approach :-

1. A new member wanting to fly turbines would first have to demonstrate safe, competent flying on a fast(ish) EDF model. Either their own, or, possibly owned and operated by the club.

Main benefit - no (or little) fire risk. Failsafe(s), installation checks etc to be regularly carried out by a competent club examiner. 'B' cert to be encouraged, but, let 'A' cert's progress to this on EDF first.

2. Existing members will be known to others. If they are 'top-notch' fliers then let them go the turbine route if they want to but with compulsory technical checks as above. If they refuse - what are they hiding ? 'Progressing' members - EDF first.

It only needs one bad accident to lose a site (or, heaven forbid, a life)....

My own planned progression here for your comments :-

Year 1 Airfix kit /scale drawings of a jet provost

Year 2 PSS model jet slope soarer

Year 3 EDF Jet Provost or similar 'straight-wing' jet

Year 4 Professional turbine flying lessons / Jet build

Year 5 Maiden jet with professional / v.experienced club member on buddy box

Overkill ?

Dave

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  • 2 weeks later...

Our club operates an A cert minimum to fly a turbine-with a spotter/helper who is B cert and Jet approved.

Even a B cert (C cert) is not enough to have you signed off to fly turbine models-you still must have a spotter, but once you are signed off the spotter does not have to be a B+or jet approved.

The logic is someone who has a cert and jet experience still might struggle to fly in our safe airspace. People come from huge open spaces or airfield operation and they need to prove they are spatially aware enough to operate a turbine model at our site.

The JMA do operate a B only rule, mainly because we operate more than one model in the air and the meetings are too busy to allow for people who might not have the required skill or safety knowledge.

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  • 2 years later...
On 12/05/2018 at 21:02, john stones 1 - Moderator said:
Posted by Ultymate on 12/05/2018 09:57:45:

Yep I'm of same opinion, judge the pilot before any restrictions get put on, large petrols, large scale tricky to fly stuff, small quickies that go like a bat out of hell etc etc. Some B flyers about, you wouldn't like to be near on a field.

In this case you must surely worry about the veracity of the examiners that gave the flyers their "B" certificates in the first place

Edited By Ultymate on 12/05/2018 09:59:54

I have seen some dreadful B flyers Brian, so have many others, I've flown with some lads who have an A and some who have nothing and I would fly anywhere and anytime with them.

 

Totally agree...... it's just like passing a driving test, which does not make you a good driver.  

 

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5 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Don't you have a separate jet flyers test ?, over here it is easy just common sense, a check on the plane, radio and general look around, pre flight check, cap and sun glasses ( over kill in the UK ) start up and flight, 4 judges,,,

I’m a little confused - easy - just common sense…but 4 judges to make the assessment?

 

I’m fairly sure that any club requiring a B test would see this as a minimum indication rather than a blanket authorisation to fly jets with no further assessment, whether informal or more structured. The B should be seen as attainable by any reasonably competent pilot who can control a model accurately in all attitudes and I would question* the attitude of any prospective gas turbine operator not prepared to invest in a small amount of practice and effort to achieve one, or an equivalent. 

*Before the freedom of action advocates jump on this, I’m fully aware that there may be good reasons so “question” is the operative word.

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