Matt Storey 1 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Hi all, I've been watching this with great interest, especially after buying the RCME July 18 edition with the free plan. A few points to note: I got back into flying last year after a 20yr break - now 37. I bought the magazine as part of my journey back into the hobby I soon after bought a Chris Foss Uno Wot - my first balsa build since my teens I've never built from plan before Now an electric convert I've simply ordered my wood from SLEC and and copying/cutting from the plans. No short kit for me! So, having seen the mass build was to be Renaissance, i was fairly excited to see others start their builds and to learn this. I actually started on the 1st March although have only now decided i will share my progress/experience and add some pics. In fact, my fuselage is nearly complete - i'll post some pics up later. Some things i have learnt: Fuselage sheeting - i used 2.4mm for this. As i'm going electric, i was tempted to go 1.6mm. I still think this would have worked and working the wood would have also been easier. Tailplane - I have modded from the plans slightly and gone for a 'squared off' look. I also built the horizontal stab as a single piece - this ensures strength Tailfin - I've noticed some are building the base of this to sit on top of the soft shaped block. Instead i cut the bottom of the bottom to be flush onto the stab. This means that the soft balsa blocks fit along the sides of the fin and provide a more rigid mating surface. As vibration and fuel proofing won't be an issue, but cooling is, i've used liteply throughout the fuse. I'm also opening up lighting holes in the formers, ribs etc, thus reducing the overall weight and increasing airflow around the ESC and lipo. Probably going to install the ESC on the motor mount. The lipo will be where the fuel tank sits using velcro straps. Also attaching the hatch using hinges and a quick release system for fast and easy access. About to move onto the wing construction and likely to use flaperons with hoerner wingtips to help low speed stability. Nothing like diving straight in! Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Walby Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Welcome aboard, please post some photos so we can catch up! Nice ideas there Matt, pity I am further down the road, but I'll see if I can add a few in If its electric and you can get the C of G I think it will fly slow anyway, but it will be interesting how it preforms. Are you keeping the dihedral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 Battery placement will be crucial to the CG issue. The only concern i have with using the fuel tank space is that it won't counter balance the tail strongly enough and therefore lead weights will be needed. I want to avoid that as the aim is to keep the weight as low as possible. That will help keep the stall speed low. The problem is that a 4 stroke 0.52 would be circa 500g. The motor i am looking at is a 4Max 5055-595 weighing in at 300g. The lipo adds more weight at 450 grams, but this is closer to the CG point potentially reducing its effect. One idea i am toying with is to create a square opening from the engine firewall (F1) to inside the motor mount. The battery would slide forward into this 'box' space allowing fine tuning of the CG. I'm keeping the dihedral at the designed angle. Its a decent sized fuselage meaning a bit of weight above the CG point. I want to maintain lateral stability and it also looks better with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin gruntfuttock Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Welcome Matt. Looking good and i admire you for doing your own cut outs. There is a wealth of experience doing the build and the folks are very helpful, i am learning all the time and look forward to learning more from yourself Cheers Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 It is indeed looking good. Not sure about the heat treatment it appears to be about to undergo though Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 Thanks, Jim And yes, Trevor, true that! Only a few places i can mock up the aircraft in my house. This was stealthily taken whilst my wife was in the living room.. To be honest, the light from the hood is quite useful in seeing defects. I normally build plastic kits and often take pics of finished models there. Next up is joining the elevators and cutting out the wing ribs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Great workmanship Matt, thanks for sharing. Personally I would not fit the flaperons you mentioned in your OP. They increase the likelihood of a tip stall and spin, which can really ruin ones day at low level on the approach! Separate flaps and ailerons are a great idea however and you can operate both flaps from one servo if you want to keep the weight down (or two if you are not bothered). Just my 2p worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 Thanks Piers - good advice and much appreciated. There are few points I've considered with flaperons vs split aileron/flap. Separate route means either four servos or bell cranks/torque rods - more complexity for the build Also means reduced aileron authority with a smaller span, although i could compensate with a deeper control surface. Again means alteration to the design. Flaperons can be retrofitted and removed simply by programming the transmitter. I may add small vortex generators to the outer portion of the wing to help low speed performance - not sure of the exact effect on small model, although there is online research demonstrating benefits Only plan to use once i'm fully confident of the models performance and would only start by experimenting at altitude. If it became difficult to control - no more flaperons! Edited By Matt Storey 1 on 28/03/2019 16:06:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 A few thoughts on flaps... Use of full span 'strip' ailerons on model aircraft is partly historical. Servos were once very expensive, big and heavy so it made sense to use one and operate both ailerons via torque rods or bell cranks, if you didn't mind the complication or the inevitable slop in the linkages. Most full sized aircraft don't have full span ailerons for the simple reason that it is the outer portion that causes most of the rolling motion. The inboard section will be less efficient and contribute to drag. Like you say, Increasing the chord or deflection will be an effective fix. Making the ailerons extend across two thirds of the wing span and the flaps occupying the central third, will hopefully provide a respectable roll rate while the flaps will be large enough to create drag to control the approach and reduce the landing roll. Hoerner wingtips and vortex generators - fun to do, look nice, but how effective will they be at model sizes so, is it worth the effort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Thanks Peirs - All valid points! My next build is a Telemaster 40 which I want to go super STOL on - Separate flaps amongst others. The flaperon idea is mainly a ‘why not’ as it means minimal change from the plan; bearing in mind this is my first plan build! When I build scale plastic models, i frequently scratch build details and use resin/photo etch. It an obsession really - the need to add fine detail, even if only I know about it! the wingtip idea is an example of this. Yes, it will mean more work, but it will look good, allow me to learn more and why not! i saw this video in my research for the Telemaster: **LINK** The generators do allow the airflow on the outer wing to remain attached in high AOA or low speed. It will be small improvements, but again why not. For me, this is key to the hobby, to be imanginative and create something unique. Definitely worth the extra effort, even if the performance is similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Wing ribs done.. copied from a master and cut out with a scroll saw. Also used permagrit to shape all and create the spar slots. I was going to add lightening holes, but can’t decide if it’s worth it?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 So, big learning point for me on the wing. Sheet the underside first and then the top, otherwise it can very easily develop a warp. Had the port wing done and even added a 6mm block for washout. Ended up with the wing drooped down instead! Now have the top stripped and sanded ready for new sheeting. Will put this down to first time inexperience and Friday evening beer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 Edited By Matt Storey 1 on 08/04/2019 22:38:03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 Latest developments.. wing has been ‘corrected’ (!) and now has the right angle of washout. Will finish more sheeting and the leading/trailing edges tomorrow. I teach air cadets on Tuesdays/Fridays so a good opp to get them involved too. Also started to consider the split flap and aileron route. Toying with adding a 50mm trading edge to achieve this but. It sure. Hmmm...!! Edited By Matt Storey 1 on 08/04/2019 23:10:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony oneill 1 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 hi matt, looking good. would it be possible for you to post some pictures of the center section of the wing? mines seems to have went a bit wonky so it would be good to get a look at another before I go any further. regards tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 Thanks Tony Yes, happy to do so when back home. I've yet to sheet this, and my wing seemed wonky as well, although i put this down to sheeting the top first on the port side. I removed this sheeting and so that it was only on the bottom of the wing and remained flexible. the top sheeting then went on and i used numerous magazines to apply generous pressure along the whole wing - one at a time. This completely cured the warped/twist and it now appears to be completely accurate. Quite happy it is to, considering its my first built up wing. I'll take pics of the rest of the sheeting process and also how i seal up the joins. Cheers Edited By Matt Storey 1 on 09/04/2019 11:09:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 Posted by tony oneill 1 on 09/04/2019 08:53:53: hi matt, looking good. would it be possible for you to post some pictures of the center section of the wing? mines seems to have went a bit wonky so it would be good to get a look at another before I go any further. regards tony. Think i had spotted that you have worked out the issue here, but here is my take on the wing. I ignored the dotted line on the plans and went to the drawn layout. That said, i did this after cutting half or the hard balsa spars... In the end, i figured that the ply spar brace had enough material attached to ensure adequate strength. Now have the wing complete and bolted to the fuselage. I used 6mm carbon rod instead of dowel. All epoxied in place. Currently trying to decide if i add the upturned hoerner tips. Quite like the clipped look! Edited By Matt Storey 1 on 12/04/2019 12:31:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Posted by Matt Storey 1 on 28/03/2019 16:04:56: Thanks Piers - good advice and much appreciated. There are few points I've considered with flaperons vs split aileron/flap. Separate route means either four servos or bell cranks/torque rods - more complexity for the build Also means reduced aileron authority with a smaller span, although i could compensate with a deeper control surface. Again means alteration to the design. Flaperons can be retrofitted and removed simply by programming the transmitter. I may add small vortex generators to the outer portion of the wing to help low speed performance - not sure of the exact effect on small model, although there is online research demonstrating benefits Only plan to use once i'm fully confident of the models performance and would only start by experimenting at altitude. If it became difficult to control - no more flaperons! Edited By Matt Storey 1 on 28/03/2019 16:06:01 For future reference, don't forget that many modern transmitters are capable of mixes to allow operation of flaps as ailerons for normal flight and as flaps when required. Very useful to copy full size glider practice where inboard flaps are sometimes coupled with ailerons via cunning mechanical mixing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Martin, I can think of many examples of both light aircraft and jet transports that can droop their ailerons when flaps are lowered to facilitate a lower approach and landing speed. I believe all these aircraft have separate ailerons and flaps not flaperons (correct me if I am wrong). Also, with a full size aircraft the pilot has accurate airspeed information, not so a model aircraft. Consequently just because a transmitter can mix flap and aileron functions it is not necessarily desirable, hence my comments in my previous posts. However it is a free country so if that floats your boat, then try it. What can possibly go wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 I wasn't meaning to suggest drooping ailerons Piers - in fact, just the opposite. I would certainly concur that using strip ailerons or inset ones as flaperons is a recipe for a nasty tip stally model! I have improved the behaviour of models prone to tip stalling by setting small amounts of upward deflection to both ailerons and I'm quite sure that doing the opposite would be a very bad idea indeed! I have used ailerons for approach control in the opposite sense with great success - on a 4m glider that I acquired which came without flaps, spoilers or airbrakes, I created a slider controlled mix so that the ailerons could be deflected upwards to well over 45 degrees - roll control still being adequate on finals by reducing the total movement on the appropriate side with the aileron stick. The full sized ASW20 which was the flapped glider I was most familiar with for example, mixes ailerons with flaps for roll control such that the trailing edges of flaps and ailerons are synchronised in the neutral and higher speed settings (negative) but in the landing configuration it set the neutral position of the ailerons at -8 degrees with the flaps at +55 degrees. Edited By Martin Harris on 12/04/2019 18:22:06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Martin, sorry if I misunderstood your post. Yes absolutely, reflexed ailerons are an excellent way of glide path control rather like using spoilers on the approach. The full sized Lockheed Tristar did this very thing. I believe they called it 'active ailerons', long before the advent of 'fly by wire'. Using reflexed ailerons mixed with flap (crow braking) can have the added bonus of eliminating the trim change too. Edited By Piers Bowlan on 13/04/2019 08:45:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 Ready for covering now - will get in progress pics up tomorrow. Also tested with dummy weight to simulate the motor and a 4S battery, right against the firewall - was nose heavy! Will neeed to dry fit everything and test the CG point again, although it looks like the battery placement can be used to balance rather than add weights. Also sent myself the goal of using the extended weekend to finish the airframe, install all radio gear and carry out thrust tests. The maiden flight is not far away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Storey 1 Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 All covered up! Motor mount and radio gear tomorrow.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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