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Sopwith Camel, Tony Ray Models.


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44e735ef-a91e-4cf5-9408-75569ce16364.jpega6375eb1-fec7-406f-af4f-3a9db244049e.jpegI saw this Sopwith Camel on Bang Good a few months ago and thought it would be interesting for indoors. Although very detailed in structure (looks almost full-sized) the high quality cnc cutting makes it go together quickly. The only problem I had was with my clumsy fingers when using the M1 3mm self tapping panhead screws that hold much of it together, but you get there. It looks as if the finished all up weight with battery will be about 50 gms.

It uses the usual 8.5mm cordless motor with gearbox, micro rx with longitudinal servos and 1S LiPo around 150 mah. The design is very interesting.

I now find that Steve Webb/Servo Shop is selling these dd72776d-cfd5-45a5-9dab-1bfca0ba1d52.jpegand there is a range of 12 designs including the Etrich Taube, Fokker EIII, Avro 504 etc. Worth a look for those interested in this kind of thing.

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Thank you Timo. This is where it is now. Frustration has been caused by unreliability of the linear micro-servos, which I have found previously tend to stick inexplicably, despite taking the greatest care with linkages. In this case the rudder and elevator servos have been fine and the two underwing aileron servos did too until I had covered the wing underside and enclosed the leads and connectors. However it is quick and easy to strip off the tissue and replace it, so I’m going to do that and fit small,rotary servos instead. I’m then going to finish it as the Shuttleworth Trust plane, fit Vickers guns and a foam pilot. The quality of the cnc cutting on this is very good although care is needed because of its delicacy during assembly. When all together, covered and doped it is really robust, far more than a foamy. Still some tidying up to do around the edges etc.87d16a71-20c7-42e8-ae56-ace9f9e0d7e1.jpeg

Edited By Colin Leighfield on 26/11/2019 22:07:39

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Colin,

I hope this finds you well?


I found your post on a google for something Tony Ray related.


Thankyou for mentioning that we (Steve Webb Models) are selling the Ton Ray kit’s. I can reveal that Tony asked us to be his UK distributor and we have sad yes.


I contacted Tony regard BG broken deliveries and SWM ended up selling the TR Models as a Happy Accident! My first deliveries were through 3rd parties, but we now deal directly with Tony. I’m pleased to report he is doing good.

He's young and very talented regard kit design and new ideas.


Tony Ray’s Peanut Models, became Tony Ray Aero Model co. A much better name as it describes better what Tony Ray Aeromodel does. We have all the models that available at Bang Good, plus a few more as Tony’s newer models have not been sold to Bang Good at this point in time. Our models are later kits mostly.


We have a good relationship with Tony, we have become pals that’s for certain. I love my indoor flying and love Tony’s kits. Tony also loves indoor flying and all things aeromodelling. He can be found at his club in China flying models with engines - had a nice picture of him with his Tiger Moth powered by an SC15 ( what else?)


We started a Tony Ray website for the UK. It’s a Satellite Site that will give Tony/Us a website promoting his kits in the UK. Not e commerce capable, but we already have that at servoshop.co.uk. Tony thought a UK website for his product would help give his kits identity and publicity. We think it can't hurt.


We can also encourage customers to send us their Tony Ray Model Aircraft pics and we can load them to the gallery on the new TR site.


It’s had 8 hours build so far so it’s under construction! In the meantime, full details and stocks and kits are available at servoshop.co.uk


We have also stepped up our eBay stores and Tony Ray Models are listed on eBay.


If anyone has specific questions, we can answer them in this thread.


After messing around with the format of how we sell the models, we are now making the kits available at an economic flat pack price. We still send small box or card packed to prevent breakages. There’s a story there! Kits arriving broken in the UK is how we originally came to stock the kits.


We have also built the models and made available EXTRA instructions. Additional Info, UK specific instructions. In the models listed below:


The Kits Below we have EXTRA Instructions for. These are specific to the UK kits. We supply the link at the point of sale when a kit is purchased from us.

AVRO 504K
A6M2 Zero
Bleriot XI

DH53 Humming Bird
Etrich Taube / Dove

(Taube is German for Dove? and French for Pidgeon)
Fokker Eindecker
Sopwith Camel

All the above have EXTRA instructions available.


We have FREE downloads of the UK specific 'EXTRA' instructions for those that purchase the kit from SWM.
We have download instructions available for the DR1 and Mustang, but they are the Original Photo Instructions.


The Camel ( you have) we sell has had an airframe change ( from those on sale at Bang Good). The model now has a larger tail plane. It aids slower flying and stability.


Colin- if you have the older model and want a Tail Plane kit, I can send you one FOC. Just send an SAE to us with a Large Letter Stamp (88p)


I’ve forgot how to upload pics here. I shall try and figure it out!


Tony’s kits will have their own UK website – which will link to our ecommerce servoshop.co.uk site.


https://tonyrayaeromodels.co.uk/

Thanks for the mention Colin. I hope you don' mind me clarifying that not only do we sell them, we are the UK official importer and distributor for Tony Ray Aero Model co.

Any questions , please ask away. I shall try and answer them. If its OK with the moderators I could even post some hints, tips and information regard the kits.

By Best Wishes to All

Steve

Steve Webb

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Hi Steve. Great to hear from you and I am fine thank you, hope you are too. Thank you also for the offer on the tailplane, I will take you up on that. These are fascinating little models, excellent design and material quality. I don’t think I did the best possible job on mine but I learned from it and would do better next time around. For those craftsmen who appreciate detail they really are very good. I haven’t tried to fly mine yet and need to work out how to get the Lipo inside without fouling the servos, but it just needs a bit of patience. If you go on FB and have a look at the Scale Indoor R/C -UK page you will see my Camel on there. Also you will see that Rob Wardale is doing a better job than me with Tony’s Avro 504.
I don’t know if the mods have seen your post yet to answer your question?

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Hi Colin,

Thanks for your reply

I’ve dropped a message to Robin who’s at SWM regard the tail plane kit. I’m currently at home. Took a bad fall before Christmas and broke elbow. An injury referred to as a ‘Terrible Triad’ and it’s not called ‘Terrible’ for no reason.

it’s on our to do list to build a camel with no ailerons . We sre fairly certain the model will fly without ailerons and on rudder . Making it even lighter and even better for indoors.

All read and understood regard the build. I think your next one would be easier having built a kit. At the price they make excellent models to try a build. The Fokker Eindecker, Humming Bird and Bleriot are good to try with.

I didn’t mean to ignore Timo . Regards the comments on the Taube / Dove . It’s a real looker . The build is not difficult but it is fiddly . The challenge with the Taube is the initial trimming. I’ve personally never enjoyed a good relationship regard all sizes of Taube. The shape of the wing is known to present pitch trimming issues. Tony Rays Taube looks great and the very large moving tail plane needs very little movement. I can’t stress how important it is to balance the model slightly nose down at the c of g. The best way to fly it is trimmed out for straight & level and use very small inputs / movement. The less interfering with sticks the better. I think it’s a good candidate to convert to free flight.

For slow flying indoor the Bleriot is s winner. It’s worth reading the AM review. We have a motor set A and Motor set B one is 7 mm and one 8.5 mm The Bleriot doesn’t need the power indoor , but with its short nose the larger motor set Helps the c of g . If flying in a breeze the larger motor power is handy..

If using the larger motor keep that throttle back

cheers Stevd


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Thanks Colin for posting this here and thanks Steve for highlighting the distributor status.

I had seen the Tony Ray kits on eBay and was taking a closer look but other projects got in the way as they always do with me, this has reminded me to have a look and this morning have pulled the trigger on the DH 53 and Eindecker, I did agonise for the Taube and 504 but let’s get these done first!

Cheers chaps

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No problem Nigel. It’s all very interesting stuff. A combination of traditional aeromodelling and modern high-technology producing parts way beyond my ability with a modelling knife! It will be great to see how you get on with the Humming Bird and Eindecker. I have recently built the somewhat larger Stevens Aero DH53, another very nicely prepared kit.

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Posted by Colin Leighfield on 04/02/2020 11:05:38:

Hi again Steve, sorry to hear about your elbow, vary nasty and I hope that it is getting sorted out for you.

Hi Colin, I had a nightmare time in A&E, because I have Addison's Trauma is deadly and so they dispatched an Ambulance to rush me in to take care of any Addison's Crisis that might develop. At the time I was handling it quite well and I took extra steroid to cope with the energy needed that I don't have.

Addison's is Adrenal insufficiency.

The Ambulance part went well, getting into A&E and them deciding what to do went OK as there's an Alert on the records to administer medication urgently in these situations. After it all went well, it then went wrong and despite asking staff for help etc , it was 12 hours later we finally saw a doctor. By then I was going into a Crisis and he ran around panicking getting the medication in me I should have had 12 hours earlier. He actually said I should have brought it to their attention I had not had he medication.He also said I should have come in sooner. I was able to say I'd asked about 20 staff and I came in by ambulance within an hour of he accident. I remember the look as he shook his head. There's no excuse as its on my notes. A huge alert comes up and they have to tick it to go past.

If it sounds familiar - the COCH AE has almost killed me a couple of times. Its a repeat of whats happened before. Its why the alert is in place and I have a card and alert necklace etc. Maybe I cost too much ... LOL.. surprise

Other than that - Once I saw the right people the care became excellent as it often does. The A&E at the COCH will be on the National News one day and it won't be for being good

>>If the Camel will turn ok on rudder it will definitely be an advantage. The Bleriot sounds interesting, I haven’t seen the Aeromodeller review on that. I’ll send the s.a.e. and large letter stamp shortly.<<

It will turn on rudder only. I think with a board out of a Vapor or similar it would be very light weight. Missing those 2 aileron servos. Its a small model for 2 servos on ailerons. Fine outside, but indoors we need as slow as possible.

SAE - that's fine. I warned the store to expect an SAE from you. Its no problem - The model can fly slower with the larger tail area.

Steve

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Posted by Nigel Dell on 04/02/2020 11:44:43:

Thanks Colin for posting this here and thanks Steve for highlighting the distributor status.

I had seen the Tony Ray kits on eBay and was taking a closer look but other projects got in the way as they always do with me, this has reminded me to have a look and this morning have pulled the trigger on the DH 53 and Eindecker, I did agonise for the Taube and 504 but let’s get these done first!

Cheers chaps

Hi Nigel , Thank you for the message.

Good choices. The Fokker is a great flyer and so is the Hornet. I was going to make a post about the bass wood in the kits. I actually did write a rather good post on my phone earlier, but 'Apple' ate it some how. So I will attempt again soon. Its something that will be of interest to builders.

DH Hornet - The current kits have a slight error where the stringers fit on the formers. Its only an error as Laser cutting usually fits so snuggly. If it was an normal kit , I doubt we'd say it was an error. You may have to just ease the fit slightly. Nothing major.

Enjoy the models

Steve

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Posted by Nigel Dell on 04/02/2020 11:44:43:

Thanks Colin for posting this here and thanks Steve for highlighting the distributor status.

I had seen the Tony Ray kits on eBay and was taking a closer look but other projects got in the way as they always do with me, this has reminded me to have a look and this morning have pulled the trigger on the DH 53 and Eindecker, I did agonise for the Taube and 504 but let’s get these done first!

Cheers chaps

Hi Nigel , Thank you for the message.

Good choices. The Fokker is a great flyer and so is the Hornet. I was going to make a post about the bass wood in the kits. I actually did write a rather good post on my phone earlier, but 'Apple' ate it some how. So I will attempt again soon. Its something that will be of interest to builders.

DH Hornet - The current kits have a slight error where the stringers fit on the formers. Its only an error as Laser cutting usually fits so snuggly. If it was an normal kit , I doubt we'd say it was an error. You may have to just ease the fit slightly. Nothing major.

Enjoy the models

Steve

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Posted by Colin Leighfield on 04/02/2020 13:47:03:

No problem Nigel. It’s all very interesting stuff. A combination of traditional aeromodelling and modern high-technology producing parts way beyond my ability with a modelling knife! It will be great to see how you get on with the Humming Bird and Eindecker. I have recently built the somewhat larger Stevens Aero DH53, another very nicely prepared kit.

Hi Colin.

Excellent description regard the mix of new and old technology. When I was younger I built a few Keil Kraft Flying Scale Models. I found them difficult. Quite the put off. Seeing this sort of Kit construction is just amazing by comparison. Of course Ripmax have re engineered some Keil Kraft models , which are sold out nationwide. An indication of how modellers are taking up building again. Of course the same technology regard RC that fits the small RC Laser Cut Models also works in Rubber Power Kits which we electrify. The Vintage Model Co - Magnificent Flying Machine Range they sell through ALL GOOD MODEL STORES ( and Littlewoods and Not on the High Street - I'm told) convert to RC easily. I have a friend that fly's the Turbulent indoors and its excellent.

So many kits and not enough time!

Steve

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Steve, you had a really rough time. It is a huge relief that you got through it, but what a rotten experience. It is great to see renewed interest in building, particularly big some of the younger ones come on board! I know that Hobbycraft have been stocking the Vintage Model kits, although I was in the Tamworth stores a couple of days ago and I didn’t see any then.

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Bass Wood - More commonly known in the UK as Lite Ply.

Coming up with a tittle for this post? I went with what it’s about. I could have gone with ‘Time Warp’

Or ‘Bend me shape me ……’

Tony Ray’s Models are Laser Cut and because some of the parts are very thin, he uses a 2-ply version of bass wood as it is as light as hard balsa, stronger and more flexible. It does laser cuts well.

You can sense the ‘But…’ coming up.

But – During the cutting process the sheet which has a lot of the meat lasered out of it can bend. This can look very wrong. Especially if used to traditional printed wood kits where the sheet with the print or die cut would be flat. Because these kits are laser cut the bend in the sheet does not normally affect the build. The parts come out of the sheet and being only 2 ply are a little more flexible than 3 ply. As they self-jig the build should be fine.

Tony initially didn’t see it as a problem and once it was explained to us and we built kits we didn’t see it as an issue. BUT customers buying the kit on some occasions see the bent sheet and instantly see an issue. Tony in correspondence said he would like to find a ‘fix’ the reaction with a way that didn’t involve 3 ply bass wood as that would increase the weight of the components by a 3rd.

Obviously he receives the same reaction we have had on occasions and he summed it up as affecting the customers ‘ mood’. Which is a good way of describing what happens when you see a bent sheet.

The build is fine, but their ‘mood’ is affected.

New Technology meeting old/ Old meeting new. Most of the time the parts come out not out of shape and its all fine. If you want to flatten the sheet, purely to start flat, then Ironing the sheets work’s well. The only area we’ve had any issues is where long parts are used and fit unsupported – like Under Carriage parts. The U/C parts are bent, just Iron or press straight before using. I suppose describing it as a Flexible medium rather than ‘bent’ might help.

Modeller’s that have not built before might question it and satisfied with the answer they go on to build the kit no problems. Modellers used to traditional kits; they worry more.

Obviously if you do have any problems with Tony Ray AeroModel UK Spec kits supplied by us we’ll do our best to advise and help should you have questions. Regrettably we cannot warranty kits not purchased from ourselves. If purchased from Bang Good, then that’s the retailer to help you.

Any questions feel free to ask.

Steve

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Posted by Colin Leighfield on 04/02/2020 16:58:29:

Steve, you had a really rough time. It is a huge relief that you got through it, but what a rotten experience. It is great to see renewed interest in building, particularly big some of the younger ones come on board! I know that Hobbycraft have been stocking the Vintage Model kits, although I was in the Tamworth stores a couple of days ago and I didn’t see any then.

I have to say Colin I'm better now. Initially after the last session in A&E I was suffering mentally more than physically. I forgot to say that while trying to get X Ray'd I was suffering as I could not hold my arm as high as they needed for it to get on the table. I ended up on a Box. I suggested they lower the table. The answer - they couldnt it was broken.

Later while struggling to get an MRI of the injury I was to high up and kept hitting my arm and head as the table went into the tunnel. I suggested lowering the table. The answer came back. The table was broke and they couldnt.

No joke! You would have to see it to believe it! I'm OK now. The nervous twitch has stopped. LOL

Building is on the up , along with it enquires come for items that were available in the 80's and 90's are asked for only for customers to find out that they are not available. It seems sad that building is on the rise and yet Solarfilm has gone. Perhaps if this trend happened 10 years ago they'd be still with us? Maybe SC and ASP would still be available? Maybe Graupner would be solvent. I do think traditional hobbies are returning, but there's a lot of stuff we took for granted that is no longer around.

There's no doubt that IC engine sales went rock bottom. There's one area of IC growth - 'Petrol' or 'Gas' and I think Saito have taken the lead there. Laser cutting and CNC cutting are making balsa engineered masterpieces. Even so as modellers we don't tend to see the build as what we are paying for. The attitude is that ARTF is cheap and so kits should be cheaper. In actual fact its more costly or as costly to produce kits than ARTF or RTF.

Kits require more advice, guidence and that was usually the Local Model Store. Now the local model store for many is the internet. Fingers crossed building models does return. The X Box generation are never going to get Jobs in Fullsize Aviation by explaining how they defeated Modred the Mystic on level 14, but they might get the job if they discussed the model aircraft they have built and successfully flown.

Perhaps Multi Rotor is a way we interest younger customers to become modellers?

Steve

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Posted by Graham Donaldson on 04/02/2020 17:09:28:

So this is what you have been doing! Must try building and indoor rather than buying ready to fly.

Graham

Building - such a good feeling to fly something you helped create. The skills taught come in handy for repairing ARTF. I think we have to look kits like Jigsaws. The people that 'do' jigsaws enjoy the assembly. That's the part they pay for. Our attitude to kits tends to be they are expensive compared to some ARTF and they are , but we are paying for the 'build' of it. That's the part we need to see as what we are paying for. That would pave the way for many kits to return.

Take the Wot 4 - The ARTF version is fantastic value. It fills a need for Wot 4 flyers. BUT the kit , which tends to cost more than the ready built is fun to build, finish to your own colours etc and I have to say more robust and I am certian will last far longer than the ready built airframe in use. The Foss kits are still good sellers at SWM. They never stopped. But they did slow up for a time. More are selling again now a days. Building is returning.

Steve

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2560-bleriot coke yellowfronyr.jpg

The Can of Coke is Optional. It gives size to the Bleriot X1

bleriot front grey -good.jpg

Perhaps that's a better in character shot. Louis Bleriot was not on the energy Drinks crossing the channel. Back then a Red Bull chased you across a field. It didnt give you wings.

front grey bleriot-w.jpg

Another shot of the Dave (Froggy) Lucas Bleriot which Dave wrote the Extra Instructions from. Its proportions are excellent for an alternative to foam indoor flying

Steve

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I love Ray,s models I built the Bleriot x1 it was an enjoyable build i did do a blog in way of a review . The basswood is brittle and needs handling with care I don't think I will commit it to the air nevertheless it was a fun challenge , if you do build one to fly opt for better tissue

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Hi Guys

Thanks for the messages and info, the kits arrived today due the usual SWM excellent service and Royal Mail of course.

These really are excellent little kits, the cutting is superb, I am going to have to raid my stash of Esaki tissue for these babies.

I am going to try and make a start in the next few days.

Nige.

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Posted by Martian on 04/02/2020 18:00:40:

I love Ray,s models I built the Bleriot x1 it was an enjoyable build i did do a blog in way of a review . The basswood is brittle and needs handling with care I don't think I will commit it to the air nevertheless it was a fun challenge , if you do build one to fly opt for better tissue

Hi

Thanks for posting your feedback. I hear lots of people referring to the Bleriot as an enjoyable build .Do you have a link to your blog? Review? There’s a hard copy review in Aeromodeller January 2020 edition.

Wood can vary in any kit or ARTF. I mentioned in an earlier post that Tony uses 2 ply rather than 3 and I’ve described it as ‘flexible’ . If bent over it would snap easier than 3 ply but I can’t think of any extreme bending during the build. Sometimes in laser cut kit very thin pieces might get a touch over burned and brittle. May I enquire as to if you got a later kit from SWM? Or earlier from Bang Good - The main reason I ask is that Tony has new tissue in his kits. My pal Dave Froggy Lucas has used it and thought it was ok. It’s more like Jap tissue. With the kits being Flat Packed , it does mean the tissue is folded as opposed to rolled. I prefer Jap tissue rolled.

The models a good flyer, you should give it a go. If you do watch the short nose, make sure cog is OK. Keep movements low . Rates and expo are handy.

if you do ‘commit’ it to the blue - let us know how you get on.

TTFN

Steve

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Posted by Nigel Dell on 05/02/2020 21:50:42:

Hi Guys

Thanks for the messages and info, the kits arrived today due the usual SWM excellent service and Royal Mail of course.

These really are excellent little kits, the cutting is superb, I am going to have to raid my stash of Esaki tissue for these babies.

I am going to try and make a start in the next few days.

Nige.

To quote the famous fiction character from the A Team. I love it when a plan comes together.

I think your kits will have been packed by my lovely wife. It’s great to hear you like the models . It means a lot to Tony and ourselves.

I’m sure you know the store mail the links to down load the Extra Instructions. If you don’t have a mail , check the junk and if still no mail contact the SWM store and Robin will make sure you get the link .

Let us know how you get on and thanks for support

Steve

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And very well packed it was too Steve, always have had excellent service from the A team!👍🏻

I will keep you posted on the builds, Tony is obviously talented judging by first impressions of these kits and is deserving of your support, nice to see new blood in this game!

Nige.

Edited By Nigel Dell on 06/02/2020 08:04:17

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