Pete's Cavallino Rampante Italian Aerobatic Team Sabre

[Peter Garsden]

Well this is my choice. Look I'm sorry if someone else has chosen this, but there are 400 threads to look through and I couldn't see it so this is it.

The site says "Cavallino Rampante (Prancing Horse) aerobatic team has been established in 1956 from 4th Aerobrigata of Italian Air Force, as a successor of Cavallini Rampanti but this time flew five Canadair Sabre Mk4 (F-86 Sabre)."

It formed part of a 5 man aerobatic team. They probably ate ice cream at the same time and said "Gelati & Pizza" rather a lot. If someone else is doing it then there will be 2 flying aerobatics in formation together Nice........

Edited By Peter Garsden on 13/11/2019 16:25:35

[Alan Gorham_]

I can do you some lovely paint masks for your markings Pete! I'd only have to draw the stars to have a full set

[Peter Garsden]

Sorry to be a phillistine as usual Al but I am probably going to do it in film. I can make some stars with my vinyl cutter, but thank you very much for your generous offer which I will keep in mind.

[Peter Garsden]

Question,Martin (Gay - to identify you by surname obviously) about the plan.

Sorry that this is wrong way round, but as you can see I am trying to mark out the side profiles for my lost foam fuselage and am doing triangular markers. I am a little puzzled what the circled pieces of wood are. I think the first one is the planking at the edge and the second one is the balsa cover for the cockpit floor which goes from side to side. Am I right?

Initially I made an error by showing the bottom edge of the cockpit floor.

Also, to do lost foam I will need a top view of the fuselage for the top foam mould. Would it be a lot of trouble to produce one and send it to me on pdf? I will PM you. One has to produce 2 side views - no problem and 2 top and bottom view templates to cut the foam mould?

Edited By Peter Garsden on 15/11/2019 18:53:34

[McG 6969]

Hi Peter,

My best guess it's the side view of the ejection seat in the black 'circle'...

But you'd better wait for a positive answer from Martin.

Cheers

Chris

[Martin Gay]

Hi Pete,

the uppermost one is the top of the framing on the canopy. The lower one is the cockpit floor. The photo also shows a raised inner edge to the cockpit floor.

[Mark Kettle 1]

Great colours for a Sabre Jet Peter.

[Peter Garsden]

Well I have sort of made a start. I thought I would start with the fuselage as I usually start with the wings, but can't do so because I don't have a fuselage top view, so I have asked Martin to ask Gordon if it is possible, I hope so. One normally gets a top view but not in this case because the fus is made in two halves.

Anyway I have made the side templates out of card with numbers to count off for the hot wire cut every inch.

Important to make a right and left hand...OBVIOUSLY......not....

Used carbon paper from the plan with as much detail as i could from the layout - most important is the datum line to line up the template square with each other down the middle. Not sure about side airbrakes at the moment.

So I am going to start the wing like everyone else to await my top view.

[John H. Rood]

This talk of gelati and pizza and prancing horses and philistines and lost foam... it could only lead my ridiculous meandering mind to visions of Stromboli... BUT I DIGRESS.

[Peter Garsden]

There are so many pictures of wing jigs and ribs that I just got a bit bored, so I thought I would give it some thought and give you my preferred order of play (even though I haven't started yet). Incidentally, even those of us who have done a lot of building before haven't built a wing on a jig like this before - a lot of us wish we had such an excellent idea to work with. As with the JP where you had to put 2 10p pieces under the main spar at the root, it is possible to build without one, but it does add an extra step.

1. Make all 4 top and bottom sets of sheeting over the plan before it is covered in jigs and clear film.
2. Make them oversize to account for the curve of the bottom and top but not so much as to obscure the plan. I reckon 10mm is all that is needed.
3. Use the masking tape, folder over to glue with aliphatic or PVA, wipe off excess then pin down join side down technique. Make sure each join is completely flat before leaving to dry as this is 1.51859298989 recurring sheeting (sorry not completely accurate measurement) and not much margin for sanding
4. Cut the join of the 2 wings to plan so you can make both wings at once with a good join you can check before you lay down the jig.
5. Extend the lines from the plan of all lines beyond the edge of the wing ie all ribs (some already helpfully extended but not all, outside line of false leading edge because the sheeting overlaps it; wing spars and outside of false trailing edge. This way you can make the lines you need on the wood bottom sheeting.
6. Mark the lines onto the bottom sheeting by pinning it down to the plan
7. Only now build jig and pin down - don't think you need to use any glue other than J2A, J2B, J2A etc. It will fit together nicely and can be held in place by adding pieces of triangular which can be glued in place then used to pin down as it will be balsa and easier to pin through.
8. Add bottom sheeting to jig then spars and ribs and glue with either cyano or super phatic whatever takes your fancy.
9. Add false leading and trailing edges then top spars then webs, then remove from jig, hopefully in one piece - as long as you make sure your bottom sheeting root joins are good before you start it should be possible to do 2 wings at the same time.
10. Add any extra bits you need like hinge blocks, and supports for your aileron/flap servos. I am still in 2 minds whether to do flaps. I feel that they can only help on landing as long as you retract them in time. I am thinking, however of doing the side fuselage speed brakes, so do I really need both?
11. Note that the plan I have does not show the actuating rods for aileron and flap at right angles to the control surface but it should be. You can angle the servo to ensure this happens. I suggest gluing the servo to a ply plate which is the most secure way. If you use laminating resin instead of epoxy glue you will be able to prize them off again. I would cut out the plate for the servo separately to the surround before gluing into place.
12. I think there is room enough to put the control rod from inside the wing to the horn without placing the whole rod outside the fuselage and risk catching it on the heather. To do this you may have to buy high torque flat wing servos rather than cheap 1.5kg versions. Not sure. I would always leave the cheap servos for less stressed applications. You may have to raise the servo up a bit so that the rod can travel from near the bottom sheeting, out of the wing to a top control surface horn. On a mouldie it is usual to attach to the top sheeting but that is not possible here. On the other hand you may be able to exit your control rod out of the bottom sheeting?
13. Remove from jig to cut out the servo hatches and attach servos to plates; thread wires through holes to come out of holes in top sheeting.
14. Trim off extra sheeting overlap on all sides.
15. Make holes in top sheeting, re-attach to jig, and attach top sheeting, and leave to dry - I always use Aliphatic but I know some people use cyano. I have always had a problem getting it all to stick using super glue so don't bother with it for this purpose - great for other things.
16. Remove from jig and add trailing edge (not sure if jig is wide enough to attach in situ, if so I would do so). Add leading edge and tip blocks. Add leading edge sheeting whilst making sure that dowels are in place or holes have been cut for them. If you have the fuselage built line up the dowels with the holes in F4 I think it is.

[Peter Garsden]

I have another question for those that may know better than me - was the fuselage yellow or ivory? All the pictures suggest ivory but some paintings show yellow - I suspect that they were originally yellow but faded in the sun? Can't find out the answer. Does anyone know ie

or

Edited By Peter Garsden on 27/11/2019 17:04:58

[Martin Gay]

Pete,

This web page says ivory:

"The main parts of the fuselage and upper wings were painted with Gunze H21 Off White mixed with some tan to get the FS 17778 match suggested by Tauro for the ivory"

**LINK**

Martin.

[Alan Gorham_]

All the pictures of full size a/c that I have seen are all ivory. I have seen some artwork that suggests yellow but no actual photographs.

Looks like it's ivory or ivory....

[Martin Gay]

This one also says ivory:

**LINK**

Martin.

[Chris Barlow]

Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 27/11/2019 17:06:19:

Looks like it's ivory or ivory....

Just as well, the yellow looks quite garish!

Pete, do you have a photo of the top/bottom of the wing?

[Alan Gorham_]

These two pics seem to be "of the period" pictures showing the same shade of ivory on the fuz and wings. I think an aerobatic team aircraft wouldn't be allowed to fade?

[Peter Garsden]

Ah thank you Martin - brilliant. Unfortunately it looks so much better in yellow, so I was hoping that I would be able to use it. Still might use Solarfilm Antique as film is so much easier than paint. Will give it some thought.

[Alan Gorham_]

You could paint it yellow if you want a visit from the Scale police....

[John H. Rood]

I've dated some of the Reggia Aeronautica's particularly fussy Scale Police. Come to think of it, here is one of them after she took me on a pre-event recce over Cinque Terre in her 1939 Fiat CR.42 biplane:

[McG 6969]

... nice try, John...

.... but you have posted this pic earlier already.

And the lady isn't a 'Reggia Aeronautica' member, but an heli pilot from the First Group.

Cheers

Chris

[Martin Gay]

Pete,

Try this link:

https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Colour_alternatives.asp

[dirk tinck]

Hi Peter,i saw your choice of paint sceme last week , looks like we're in the same aerobatic team then !!

Did you decide on what tail numbers you're going to use ?

Greetz , Dirk.

[Peter Garsden]

Oh..right..aah...thought someone else was doing this version, not to worry. I had started to make some decal numbers on my vinyl printing programme but have not printed anything out yet. I could easily do something different - went for 420 with a rear number of 19685

[Peter Garsden]

I can see that there are many different methods around with regard to the wings. I have chosen to mark out my bottom skins before mounting on the jig. As with previous models I extended the lines from the edge of the wing in pencil to aid marking up with a ruler

You can see here the lines for the spar, false le and false te.

I left a small amount of overlap as recommended by Steve McLaren so we can line up the plan more easily and to allow the curve of the wing. The extended lines, however will help. You can see that the only line done accurately is the root rib.

I am hoping to line up and build both wings at once.

[Peter Garsden]

Well the jig finally went together after a lot of filing and easing but the good thing is that it is a tight fit. I have followed Steve's excellent advice not to glue it together to make it dissamble afterwards, and also glued my triangular supports (balsa) to the ribs only rather than the jig as well.

I had some 3/4 inch square pieces left over from the JP so sliced then cut in half to make triangles. Works well.

I bought some new Permagrit tools (crimbo present for a friend needed), and noticed they do a larger file of 3mm and a spar slotter with grit only on one side. Worked a treat.

I used the file to open up the ribs as it has not seration at the side, so does not wear down the bottom of the slot.