DB Hurricane paint and finish.

[Jon H]

As requested here are a few shots of the model as is. sorry its got no flappy bits, they are buried behind 3 models in the cupboard and i didnt fancy getting all that stuff out for just one photo

[Don Fry]

Looks very nice. It's a nice flyer. And the logerons look straight. Most else gets buried under paint. What's not to like.

[sticky fingers]

May I point out that the swastika, is a budhist religious, symbol and not just as we see it here in the west as a Nazi symbol of terror. Buddhist temple which I have visited have tiles all the way up the tower to th top

[Chris Freeman 3]

Very nice Jon, looks like the hard work is done. Like the wing fillits. What is the covering, tex of Nylon? Need to finish the Fly Baby so I can get my Hurrican down from the roof!

[Manish Chandrayan]

Posted by sticky fingers on 05/12/2019 22:33:42:

May I point out that the swastika, is a budhist religious, symbol and not just as we see it here in the west as a Nazi symbol of terror. Buddhist temple which I have visited have tiles all the way up the tower to th top

Hindu/Buddhist/Jains religious symbol actually. The only difference being that the ones we use are all anti-clockwise

[Jon H]

Posted by Chris Freeman 3 on 06/12/2019 05:07:45:

Very nice Jon, looks like the hard work is done. Like the wing fillits. What is the covering, tex of Nylon? Need to finish the Fly Baby so I can get my Hurrican down from the roof!

Its all solartex and in a moment of madness i decided to cover the entire fuselage from the top spine to the lower corner where the wing meets in one piece of tex. It worked out well but was a bit of a faff!

I am a little worried about weight as the model is 16lbs (i think) without an engine and even with the engine installed its very tail heavy without the tail surfaces even being attached. I think over the weekend i will assemble it all as best i can, get the engine fully fitted in the correct place and dot servos all over it as well. Then i can do a bit of a c/g test and see how we get on.

[Chris Freeman 3]

I built 2 Hurricanes in 1993 from the DB 44" plan that was doubled to 88 " and they used the same cowl as the kit one. The one was for a mate and one was mine. One had a ST 3000 and 1 a ST 2500. Both were just over 22 pounds and both had a lot of nose weight in them.Both flew very well and lived long lives so weight is not that much of an issue with that thick wing. The nose is also shorter than you would expect as the cockpit is quite far back.

Covering looks good, you where brave to do such a large piece as there are lots of curves..

[Jon H]

Im not too worried about the weight from a wing loading point of view, its more engine performance through loops etc. I think its going to be fine though to be honest but i do need to do some work on the wings as i am not 100% happy that the veneer over the foam is glued down properly as the glue is so old its all dried out. I might have to strip it but i would like to avoid that if i can as i think it will be a pain in the backside. I may resort to a syringe full of thinned epoxy resin and inject the suspect areas. We will see how it works out

[Don Fry]

Syringe of Superphatic wicked in Jon?

[Jon H]

yea i already tried that but i am not totally sure its worked. I did some checking a vario do dummy plastic rivets for their choppers and i was considering getting some of those and using them to help hold it all together. They arent cheap though

I am not in desperate rush to finish the model so i have time to inspect it and try a few things out. Its possible i am over stating the problem, but the wing makes nasty cracking sounds if i squeeze it and i dont think that is quite right!

[Don Fry]

Not good Jon. I once saw an turbine powered A10 break up when the foam and skin decided to go in different directions.

One thought, Gorilla foaming glue. Drill lines of holes, 50 mm centres, to take the nozzle, squirt, and tape the hole over to keep the foaming glue inside, and lose the hole in the skin. You will then know you have an attachment every 50 mm. Not heavy either.

[Engine Doctor]

+1 The foaming glue works well on veneer and any that foams out can easily be sanded off when cured . Will need a plastic sheet with heavy weights spread over area to hold it down as its very powerful when it expands .

Jon Be careful with the CoG on the DB Hurricane . I built one some years ago and the CG was exactly as per the plan . First flight proved otherwise . Needed moving an inch further forward for pleasant flying. 

The full size was I believe the same . I have read  it somewhere in the past that the first Hurricanes that were delivered were just about flyable due to a rearward CoG and one officer refused to fly it in service until it was corrected . The article said they all had a large lead weigh attached to the firewall and an extra trim tab to counter this .

DB was was a stickler for copying the full size .Everyone I know who has had a DB said that they had to move the CoG forward from that on the plan . As you say wing loading isn't too much of a problem with such a large wing although the U/C mount can be loosened in a less than perfect landing if not built strong . The one I built had the built up wing and the U/C mounting  was incredibly strong after all the mounts were strengthened with tri-angular stock .

Good luck wit it and hope you get away with sticking the veneer down .

E.D.

Edited By Engine Doctor on 07/12/2019 12:01:37

Edited By Engine Doctor on 07/12/2019 12:02:49

Edited By Engine Doctor on 07/12/2019 12:06:28

[Bob Cotsford]

On a smaller model I injected PVA under the loose skins giving it a few days to dry then ironing the veneer down - not too hot or the foam will deform! The heat and pressure of the iron works well to set the PVA and get rid of any ripples in the veneer.

[Jon H]

i have been working on the Hurricane today and have made some minor progress. The engine is now installed in its proper place and i also had to move it forward 3/8 to make sure i had enough crankshaft left to get the prop and spinner on. This means it will poke out of the cowl more than i hoped but its still very well hidden. The exhausts are also contained within the cowl so i really dont think it will be an issue.

I looked at the c/g position on the plans and it seems quite a long way forward so i dont have too many concerns about it but i will keep the elevator rates low. In my experience 90% of 'tail heavy' warbirds are actually balanced ok but have excessive elevator deflection making them almost uncontrollable. That said, i will be careful with it as any new model is an unknown.

Finally i did a quick inspection of the wings and i am really not happy with them as some of the patches i already repaired some years ago are showing signs of lifting again. As much as a pains me i think im going to strip the veneer and start again. I might be able to rescue the existing wood and glue it back down, if not i will sheet fresh with new balsa.

As much as i dont want to have to do the work its really not a good idea to fly a model with doubts about its structural integrity. I will see what i can do tomorrow to get the work started. Is copydex still the right stuff to use to glue veneer down?

[Engine Doctor]

You can now get water based Evo Stick contact adhesive. Probably more expensive than copydex was but don't know if copydex is still available. There is also a similar product to copydex used by carpet fitters , might be worth investigating ?

Edited By Engine Doctor on 08/12/2019 08:07:35

[Don Fry]

Wise thoughts Jon.

Lot of loads going though uncertain joints is a short cut to misery, as you will never trust it. Don't DB do a built up wing kit for that airframe? Lighter than foam.

[Jon H]

I did consider getting a new wing kit but i decided that if i was going to do that i should just go for gold and build a new one from scratch, and as i didnt fancy that i gave up on that idea..although i will be on the look out for another kit as i will build one from scratch eventually.

So that leaves me with what i have and following some more detailed inspection today its not as bad a first feared. While there are some fairly large patches of failed adhesive under the sheeting there are also large areas where its all good so using a putty knife an some careful cuts in the veneer i was able to get an epoxy brush under the skin and slap a bunch of super phatic under there before nailing it all back down with about 5 million pins. Once dry i will iron it down as was suggested before and then fill the cuts in the veneer with thinned resin before sanding it all back and giving the repaired areas another layer of thin glass cloth. Combined with the strength of the leading/trailing edges i am satisfied that this will be plenty strong enough but will keep an eye on it in service. I think i will also grab some of those plastic rivets from robbe (unless i can find them cheaper elsewhere) and glue them in as well after drilling a small hole and filling it with resin.

While the wing was drying i decided to remove the part of the wing dowel former which was in the way of my fuel tanks and cooling tunnel. It was quite a major faff but i got there in the end and i now have space for the tanks. Once the tanks arrive i can then build in a new tank bay floor and a vertical support to replace the lost structure. After that i can build the cooling tunnel which will also help replace the strength of the now missing former.

I will see if i can get some photos up later

[Jon H]

There has been a slight mishap with my efforts to stick the veneer down. The water in the glue caused the wood to expand and some parts are now worse than they were before! once its all dried out i will try and iron it flat. its not the end of the world, just annoying.

So, a quick photo showing the modified wing former. i will be adding some bits around the holes so they wont be as fragile as they currently appear.

This shows the new tank bay floor placed in its new home. the smaller cutout below is for cooling air venting into the undercarriage wells

All assembled and looking mean with cannons fitted. I might make some cover plates to further camouflage the engine but its not bad as it is

[Jon H]

Minor progress to report. The work on the wing is mostly finished with the repair works filled and sanded. I then gave them a skin of the thinnest glass cloth i can find so they are now ready for finishing/paint prep but that will wait until after i am done bashing it around the shed. I was also surprised to find that i had already installed all the hardware for the retracts and they were fully functional when i shot some air into them. I dont remember doing that but clearly i did!

My two fuel tanks arrived and fit perfectly in the bay i created for them so the next task is to tidy up the front of the tank bay/cooling duct and modify the wing to give the required clearance for the tanks as well as the cooling air exit. After that its just radio, detailing and paint i think...which is a bit of a worry, i keep feeling i have forgotten something.

[Jon H]

Another weekend of nasty weather meant no flying but plenty of shed time. The hurricane has progressed nicely with the wing modified to clear the tank and have its cooling tunnel sorted out. The front end of the tank bay was tidied up and the cooling duct under the tank was done as well. I then added the fibreglass fairing piece to the wing to get an idea of how it will influence airflow. I am not anticipating any problems as the shots from head on show just how nicely the ducting works with essentially a straight shot into the undercarriage bay.

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 16/12/2019 09:17:53

[Jon H]

Nothing exciting to report this weekend. Just a matter of tidying up the work already done and sealing against fuel.

I also have two more candidates for paint jobs. Both will win prizes with my girlfriend as the sqn codes are her initials.

The black one has the major advantage of being easy to paint but im slightly worried about how visible it might be on a gloomy day. It could be difficult or orientate.

The other one is the same aircraft before it was painted black. The only problem is i dont know what colours it is. I know the colours its supposed to be, but its clearly a right old patchwork of colours and if i can work out what they are a war weary patchwork Hurricane is quite appealing.

Thoughts?

[Don Fry]

You could always go freehand on the second one. I assume you can work out about when the photo was taken to get a guess a date to give the basic colours in use on that date. No one will know. Artistic licence. Just lie confidently if asked.

Rough as dogs ain't it. You can imagine a painting crew. Don't come to dinner until that thing is done. Don't forget the primer, or the paint falls off. Right, they think, where's the yard brush.

[Jon H]

They didnt mess about getting a factory finish thats for sure.

It should be dark green/ocean grey top sides with black undersides as it was a night fighter. However its clear from the photos that the dark green on the fuselage and rudder has been painted over with some sort of lighter colour. I think its the green thats been painted over instead of green painted badly as the lower section of the rudder seems to have a nice outline of normal dark green but then the rest is more of a dogs dinner. The section of grey paint in front of the tail is also lighter than the grey on the fuselage further forward. The A on the sqn code should also be light grey but its clearly brighter than the LK so i think the A is probably white.

If i do go for this paint job i think i will wing it and go with a best guess and probably use the correct colours but mix up some with a dash of white in it before badly brush painting over the relevant areas before rubbing the whole lot down with some wet n dry. I will just have to keep that photo handy to explain my apparent inability to paint!

This photo shows a bit of the top side. Again it looks like the green areas have been overpainted with something lighter

here is the rest of that photo of the aircraft with its sqn friends. Clearly they didnt really care what colour they were all painted as they are all a bit of a mess. I note that the lighter colour grey in front of the tail looks similar to the colour of the right wingtip, nose and the lighter areas on many of the other aircraft.

[Chris Walby]

I agree with Don, as the original was mostly likely never one scheme for any length of time and just got patched and painted with whatever came to hand, so just pick a photo and base it on that, who's to say you are wrong.

PS Nice colour scheme, should be near impossible to see in the winter afternoon sky....Only the howl from the V twin will give anyone a clue you are coming in for a low pass!

[Don Fry]

Totally disagree Jon. You should very carefully brush paint it, making it look rubbish. There is a difference. On thing to bear in mind, use a scale sized brush. Then the funny looking paint line on the port leading edge looks naturally closer to the original. Artists shop sell REALY nice flat brushes that are just exact miniatures to standard decorators paintbrushes. Interesting scheme. Different.

Realy bright navigation lights might be beneficial.