2 or 3 questions please, need some wise advice

[911hillclimber]

I don't know the equivalence of 'Georges' PO 3541-920 to the Overlander T4240/10 motor I have.

It would be good to use it if I can as I've done all the drilling and ply panels to allow it's fitting.

Not worried about the cost (£34), just want to be sure the plane will fly correctly.

Not sure adding lead to get the CofG is a big deal as the plane obviously is not an aerobatic design.

Not a lot of immediate room in the nose of this plane to get the batteries in.

[Denis Watkins]

Hi Graham

The lads don't like adding too much lead because this adds speed to flight

We have to get the C of G right, so prefer to move servos and batteries about where we can

You are building a relative lightweight for more sedate flight

Unnecessary lead then makes this less of a slow fly

[PatMc]

Posted by Denis Watkins on 17/02/2020 16:58:40:

Unnecessary lead then makes this less of a slow fly

But not necessarily much less.

[Bob Cotsford]

Yes, my previous Junior 60 came as IC power and the previous owner used a ton of lead to balance it. It still wafted along quite nicely. Once I moved servos and the battery around I got rid of most of the lead. It still just wafted around but having less lead gave me a warm fuzzy feeling

[Don Fry]

Look at Nigel R post of 12.36. That is a recipe for success. Better to have a bit of weight added at the back,than half a bag of sugar at the front.

Cool, and brave, early 911 up a hill.

I was born not far from Shelsley Walsh. My dad used to prepare, as a hobby, powertrains for the off road climbers.

But the workshop usually had 4 and 6 cylinder BMC units, for the road climbers. Never saw a Porsche unit. I remember the interminable rebuild of a Bugatti engine, and shoehorning an oil pump in. I think, that was a racing car.

Small child's hands were good for rebuilding carbs. Or being dangled into machinery spaces by the ankles to start a screw. Child abuse nowadays.

All changed, passed my 11 plus. Dad never treated me the same. Not destined for tools he thought. And I have taken half a life to learn, what was available for free, in childhood.

Not a criticism, no complaints, never knew him as an adult.

[911hillclimber]

Don: been competing since 1990 and have run Shelsley and the other hills every year. Great sport and very demanding. I am very involved with Loton Park by Welshpool too.

Aeromodelling looks to be quite the opposite hence the appeal, but it will not be a substitute.

I'm sure my first landing will be almost as scary as a full hill climb run!

I think I'm leaning to keeping the motor I have and get the appropriate controls and battery pack from 4-Max for about 10 mins flight time. (too long?)

To my mind the motor feels about as heavy as the never been run PAW diesel I bought for a control liner about 35 years ago...

[Old Geezer]

911 - the club you're thinking of is the Central MFC - not 'zactly secret though. We fly from a field off Lowe Lane on the Kidderminster/Bridgnorth road - our club details are on the BMFA site. We have a "Wrinkly Fliers" sub-group who - weather permitting - fly every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday morning - the friendliest bunch of aged p***takers you could ever hope to fly with.

[911hillclimber]

Yes, that is the club I intend to join when the plane is ready, but even if not, I have the old Stol which I converted to electric a few years ago (with a lot of help from this forum) so have something ready.

The Stol is a smaller wingspan, same size fuselage.

As a motorsport competitor, used to the micky taking!

[Peter Miller]

Posted by 911hillclimber on 17/02/2020 22:57:38:

I'm sure my first landing will be almost as scary as a full hill climb run!

I

Not with a vintage model. Just line it up, throttle right back and it will land its self . If you want to be fancy squeeze in a touch of up elevator at the last minute.to flair.

[911hillclimber]

I do hope you are right!

Watched endless YouTube vids of these classics, esp Junior 60 /Super Scorpions flying, touch downs and landings and they all look like you say.

Feeling nervy already, but I'm sure I will crack it.

All part of the fun, sounds like I will get a LOT of sympathy from fellow aviators at the time....

Meanwhile, back to carving the mile of leading edges on this kit.

Nody has said not to use the Big motor as to do so will be a disaster, so will ask 4 Max for the motor speed controller and battery pack. This will save mods to the ply bulk head I've made for the motor mount.

This has been a great thread for me, I really appreciate everyone's help so far.

[Peter Miller]

Many years ago one of our club members wives taught primary school childrenat a locla private school and she asked me to come an talk to them.

I took my original Suoper Scorpion and we took her class out onto the school lawns.

It was most interesting.The little boys yended top thrash the sticks around but the little girls flew the model so smoothly and gently.

No, I did let them land it because it was a fairly restricted area but I am fairly certain the little girls would have managed it.

Also, a friend was lerning to fly and was doing well but he could never land. I lent him an three channel shouler wing model.

He learned to land in one session.

[paul d]

Hillclimber, not sure where your located but if your anywhere near surrey your more than welcome to come fly my vintage jobs just to show how benign they are.

I'm sure yours will be fine, if in doubt chop the throttle and let it sort it's self out....

[Bruce Collinson]

911, check that you’ve got a full set of the right connectors for the motor, ESC and LiPo. George has them all in stock. Bullets and XTs seem easier to solder. Amass branded seem to be more resilient to excess heat. Will you fit a battery isolator? George has them too.

I started with Deans but they’re pigs to solder especially if using thick cable. I’ve swapped the whole fleet to XT 50s apart from the 6S planes which are on XT 90s, for what it’s worth.

BTC

[911hillclimber]

Paul: I'm up in West Midlands/Shropshire, but thanks for the offer!

Bruce:

Good point. I used those hard to solder connections before on the Stol conversion, pigs to do.

I'll ask George for an 'installation kit' if he can do such a thing. The ones I used on the Stol are yellow in colour.

The wiring is the least interesting part of all this and I'm not looking forward to it at all.

Just about to open my 3rd tube of balsa cement tomorrow so getting close to the end of the easy bit.

Just wishing a bit I had simply bought a nice 4 stroke!

[Peter Miller]

Balsa cement? It is a long timme since I used that. I and most other people these days use aliphatic resin. It take\s longer to dry but doe makea stronger joint.

I use XT60 plugs and socket sets. They seem to be about the best for our size of models and power units.

Up until a couple of years ago I was a dedicate ic flyer but now I have to confess that I rarely take an ic model flying. The extra weight of starter (I can hand start but...) battery, fuel etc is a bit too much for these oldlegs to lug up the long if gentle hill to out flying site.

[kc]

Most people hate soldering connectors, so it's worth mentioning that The Component Shop sell connectors with leads already attached such as this XT60. It means you could just solder the lead to lead rather than to a connector. It's not ideal to have another joint or even extra wire but it may be better than a poorly soldered joint to a connector. But the extra length may help locate the ESC in the air stream and still locate the Lipo where the weight is best used. Might be cheaper than melting a connector too.

Does anyone sell ESC with the XT60 or whatever connector you need ready soldered on? I suppose someone must......

Note also to buy Lipos with XT60 already soldered to save soldering yourself. (XT60 is very common and just a few other types already soldered on Lipos - check before ordering)

[911hillclimber]

Quick up-date:

After a few emails with George at 4-Max, have ordered all the drive system as he originally advised plus a few more parts I think I'll need.

There are planes on his site I've never seen before, superb choice to say the least.

Love the DPR Hyper Cub but the Belair Eros is huge but looks greay.. Must be quite a build at 84" span.

Getting ready to carve the leading edge of the Bucaneer's wings..

Everything else done. Will post some pics when together before covering.

[kc]

Hyper Cub was originally rubber or CO2 powered.   The plan is on Outerzone. 

The Eros is actually an RCME etc plan now from Sarik, but it's also on Outerzone. Belair just laser cut parts but that seems unnecessary with such a design with simple formers and simple wing ribs.

David Boddington did a Mini Eros at about half size -42 inch -span and that plan is also on Outerzone. Originally published by RCME's publisher in a Special edition.

I expect someone here will tell you where to find any of the other of the designs shown on 4 Max list of suitable motors etc.

Edited By kc on 24/02/2020 17:35:58

[911hillclimber]

Interesting!

Thanks for the background.

I like the form of the Hyper Cub, unusual.

[Bob Cotsford]

Eros: It's not a weekend project!

Album

[911hillclimber]

Lovely to see the details!

Your plane is one of the rare pictures on the internet of the design, but no details.

Didn't realise there was so much sheeting on the plane, hard work, you are obviously a master builder!

The mini version at about 1/2 scale appeals mind!

Thank you for posting that for me.

[911hillclimber]

Motor etc came from 4-Max today. The new motor fits the big motor's engine mount so no changes required to the fuselage. Lots of other small parts came too, so electrics next....wish me luck.

 

Need to finally finish the leading edge on the wing, but the undercarriage done today and the airframe is nearly done.

Thought a few pics are in order, so here they are plus a few of the Stol I converted a few years ago.

Edited By 911hillclimber on 27/02/2020 16:28:29

[911hillclimber]

Pondering the motor/esc/batt installations, preferably without the need for hatches.

Is it essential to get cooling air to the esc?

I've loose fitted the parts into the nose/forward cabin space (above the undercarriage) and rough tested the CoG and the frame is level with the CoG position shown on the plan.

Rough I know but it places the LiPo in an easy access space.

Battery will have a '60' jump connection to act as an isolator on an external connector fitting. The parts from 4-Max have nice generous lead lengths so no loom extensions required.

Some pictures later.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Re the ESC, it's more important to get warm air away from the ESC. You don't need much of an opening to allow some air into the fuselage but the heat from the ESC has to go somewhere.

It all depends on the model, I have a 1/4 scale ASK11 motor glider and ESC is just in the open fuselage with no cooling, but it's a large fuselage with a large volume of air to heat up and being a motor glider spends a significant part of the flight with the motor off.

[Piers Bowlan]

It also depends on how hard the ESC is working and how much 'headroom' there is between the max current it can handle and what current you are putting through it. Quite simply, how 'hot' it gets or alternatively just slightly warm. More significant is motor cooling where the exit hole for the cooling air should be larger than the opening. How large is a matter of debate and again how hot your motor gets. With your models, I would say, not very hot.