Gary's Ballerina Build

[Gary Clark 1]

I always have 2 on the go Peter, usually a scale one that takes a while and a sports one that is quicker and less of a focus of looking an exact way. The sport model usual provides a lot of fun quickly without some of the frustrating parts of scale, especially warbirds with more complicated functions.

The problem i have just now is that i have 2 large scale projects and a sports project all going and I have had very little time to do anything to any of them. I will need to get the finger out and get building again, this long list of planned models isn't going to build themself!

Gary

[Steve Goodwin]

Hi Gary, I’m thinking of building the Ballerina, I love the retro lines. You mentioned you may offer to supply the cowl to others, is this still an opportunity? It will be electric though.

P.S Only ever built gliders before (simple stick frame and tissue), wish me luck!

[EarlyBird]

12 hours ago, Steve Goodwin said:

Hi Gary, I’m thinking of building the Ballerina, I love the retro lines. You mentioned you may offer to supply the cowl to others, is this still an opportunity? It will be electric though.

P.S Only ever built gliders before (simple stick frame and tissue), wish me luck!

Good luck and welcome to the Ballerina club. ?

 

Start a build and @Peter Millerwill be on hand to help, ? we all will. We like a build with plenty of pictures and questions.

 

Mine is electric and I learned, in hindsight, I should have moved F1 forward with the motor bolted directly to it, this would move the battery also, and built up tail feathers help with the balance. I have done this on the Fournier RF-4 and was surprised that I did not need any lead in the front.

 

I am about to start The Ohmen which Peter designed as electric and is a good demonstration of the way to do it.

 

I wonder should I build another Ballerina and make it as light as possible the challenge being no lead in the nose?

 

Why not? ? nope can't think of any reason. Added it to the list then. ?

 

 

 

 

[Peter Miller]

When I converted my Ballerina to electric I had to add quite a bit of lead in the nose.

 

The OHmen actually needed lead in the tail so solid tail surfaces would be quite safe to use.

[Peter Miller]

Actually I have just started a new build. It is a cross between Ballerina and The Ohmen with changes to the sizes.

[Graham Davies 3]

I am the very happy recipient of Peter's original Ballerina. I have flown it a lot and love it.

 

For your interest, I put a bigger motor in as it was all I had (4250 800kv) and fly on 4s either 3300 or 3700 packs. With this set up I could remove all the lead from the cowl, and have actually added an ounce to the tail. It's got enough power on a 12x6, but is not ferociously overpowered. I can get nearly 10 minutes flight time, so it may be worth considering this type of powertrain in your builds.

 

It is a fabulous aeroplane to fly and has meant the airtime I have had has allowed me to really brush up my skills. And it looks great!

 

Graham

[Steve Goodwin]

@EarlyBirdHaving never built an airframe that requires power, will, trust me require questions. I am very lazy and have been relying on foam models to get me going, don’t get me wrong, they offer an extremely quick route to the air, but I do love love the vintage stuff, Peter’s models appeal because, they seem(?) easy to build and provide the type of flying that appeals to me. I do like to see a model flying in the sky, isn’t that why we do what we do? Rather than hearing something that may look very nice in the pits, but is a blur in the sky, and a handful on the sticks. First question, do plans tend to be double sided, such as, wing on one side and fuselage on the other?

[Steve Goodwin]

Hello @Graham Davies 3 I was luck enough to be the recipient of and enjoy one of Peters models many years ago, The Big Ship, a three channel trainer, which I still have.

I have reasonable knowledge on batteries, charging, esc’s etc…but no experience in power to weight ratios and suitable prop sizes, so I may tap into your knowledge if I decide to build the Ballerina! Thanks for your suggestion.

[EarlyBird]

Steve,

 

I bought the short kit from Sarik here which makes life easier for anyone new to balsa bashing. The plans are on two one sided sheets, one for fuselage and the other for a wing.

 

Go for it you will not find an easier build and better model to fly.

 

 

[Graham Davies 3]

38 minutes ago, Steve Goodwin said:

Hello @Graham Davies 3 I was luck enough to be the recipient of and enjoy one of Peters models many years ago, The Big Ship, a three channel trainer, which I still have.

I have reasonable knowledge on batteries, charging, esc’s etc…but no experience in power to weight ratios and suitable prop sizes, so I may tap into your knowledge if I decide to build the Ballerina! Thanks for your suggestion.

Hi Steve,

It's a small world, isn't it?

I have a spreadsheet I made to allow me to compare kv values, prop sizes and batteries to give an output that means something to us modellers. It makes some assumptions so is not 100% accurate, but gives a pretty good idea and makes it easy to experiment with prop sizes. Drop me a line if you'd like a copy.

Otherwise, as always, I'm happy to chat.

 

I can certainly recommend ballerina though!

 

Graham

[kc]

4Max have a good website with suggested motors etc for Peter Miller designs and several other designers plus a page for various models.  Worth a look.

Pull out ( free ) plans from RCME are usually double sided whilst if you buy the plan later it's much more expensive but single sided.

[Steve Goodwin]

1 hour ago, kc said:

4Max have a good website with suggested motors etc for Peter Miller designs and several other designers plus a page for various models.  Worth a look.

Pull out ( free ) plans from RCME are usually double sided whilst if you buy the plan later it's much more expensive but single sided.

Thanks for the info kc, been used to HK prices, which when they deliver are very good, is £34 about the right price for a motor for this build? The battery price is way too expensive, but I do appreciate their items maybe of superior quality.

[Peter Miller]

I always but 4-Max motors and ESC plus other bits but go for Turnigy batteries from hobby king.

 

Graham, Steve will be joining us as soon as the weather stops being stupid

[Steve Goodwin]

So, the weather, more specifically wind, what is considered to be too windy to fly? ok, I appreciate that some would fly in any weather.  But when you look at a forecast and decide it’s too windy for your pride and joy? MPH?

[Graham Davies 3]

1 hour ago, Steve Goodwin said:

So, the weather, more specifically wind, what is considered to be too windy to fly? ok, I appreciate that some would fly in any weather.  But when you look at a forecast and decide it’s too windy for your pride and joy? MPH?

Welcome Steve,

 

I have become a bit more robust recently, but generally anything below 10mph is comfortable. On our strip, a northwesterly means the wind comes from a wood and is turbulent. Also, the metoffice forecast has average and maximum windspeed; if there's a big difference between the two, it may be gusty which is a bit more challenging. Generally, If my metoffice forcast now says 12 mph or less, I'm in!

 

Hopefully see you at the strip when these criteria are met...

 

[EarlyBird]

10 hours ago, Peter Miller said:

Graham, Steve will be joining us as soon as the weather stops being stupid

Good news! I like good news ? don't we all?

Like you guys I am waiting for the weather to calm down below 12 mph, which will be no time soon in North Lincolnshire. ☹️

I want to fly my pride and joy again, Ballerina is my current pride and joy.

Edited August 7, 2021 by EarlyBird
More info added

[Peter Miller]

I try to obey the 10-10 rule.Below 10 mph, above 10 degrees. 

It depends on the model. The lighter models up to 10 mph. a bit higher with faster heavier models.

Gone are the days when I flew my scale Goodyear racers with the windsock pole bowing through 45 degrees.

[Simon Chaddock]

I agree with below 10 mph but there are calm winter days particularly if there has been a hard ground frost.

Too cold for the LiPo?

But my Ballerina (and its battery box) are made of highly insulating Depron so provided the battery is warm enough to start with it stays that way during the flight, even if my fingers don't! ?

[jwardlow]

Hi Gary, I have recently started making the Ballerina, and just about to complete the first Wing-half. Although it is not immediately clear if I have made a mistake or not. On the most inboard rib R1. Should this have been slightly angled in anticipation of gluing the two wing halves together? I in the end made a full Size Rib, I think same size as R2, as I am using individual Slimline Wing servos so Ailerons will be run on seperate channels. But My R1 rib is already glued in at 90 degree from the board. Im now thinking that when I bring the two wing halves together that this is the main gluing face, and just wondering should I cut this rib back out and reglue it at an angle. 

 

Hope you're still active on this forum, as your experience would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Best regards

 

James

[Peter Miller]

51 minutes ago, jwardlow said:

Hi Gary, I have recently started making the Ballerina, and just about to complete the first Wing-half. Although it is not immediately clear if I have made a mistake or not. On the most inboard rib R1. Should this have been slightly angled in anticipation of gluing the two wing halves together? I in the end made a full Size Rib, I think same size as R2, as I am using individual Slimline Wing servos so Ailerons will be run on seperate channels. But My R1 rib is already glued in at 90 degree from the board. Im now thinking that when I bring the two wing halves together that this is the main gluing face, and just wondering should I cut this rib back out and reglue it at an angle. 

 

Hope you're still active on this forum, as your experience would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Best regards

 

James

Hi James.

 

You build the first wing complete with R-1.. You then  build the second wing but DO NOT glue the root rib in place until you prop the first wing up in position and only then glue in the second root rib.  This way you get a perfect fit of the two wings at the correct dihedral angle. You can then add the second wing top leading edge top sheet.

 

 

 

[jwardlow]

16 minutes ago, Peter Miller said:

Hi James.

 

You build the first wing complete with R-1.. You then  build the second wing but DO NOT glue the root rib in place until you prop the first wing up in position and only then glue in the second root rib.  This way you get a perfect fit of the two wings at the correct dihedral angle. You can then add the second wing top leading edge top sheet.

 

 

 

Hi Peter, 

 

That's great information to share and makes total sense. Been meaning to make your design for quite some time but things always get in the way. Well an accident earlier in the year with a UK Flair Cub has freed up an OS40FS, and my nearly 3 year old daughter is showing interest in planes, so thought it would be an ideal project to try and captivate her interest. While the attention span is too short for her to help with the build she is loving to see the progress.  

Ballerina progress.jfif

[Peter Miller]

WE have a club member who built a Ballerina.  He complained bitterly about the big gap when he joined the wings.  considering I had given him a set of the original instructions he didn't get a lot of sympathy.

Then he glued a piece of brass tube into the wing to take the front locating down and FAILED to secure the actual dowel into the tube.  

He asked the club secretary to test the model. When the sec turned it inverted the dowel had slid out and the wing came off.

The builder blamed the club secretary!!!!!!!.

I will make no comment!

 

 

[jwardlow]

On 06/10/2023 at 11:25, Peter Miller said:

WE have a club member who built a Ballerina.  He complained bitterly about the big gap when he joined the wings.  considering I had given him a set of the original instructions he didn't get a lot of sympathy.

Then he glued a piece of brass tube into the wing to take the front locating down and FAILED to secure the actual dowel into the tube.  

He asked the club secretary to test the model. When the sec turned it inverted the dowel had slid out and the wing came off.

The builder blamed the club secretary!!!!!!!.

I will make no comment!

 

 

Its always easier to blame someone else instead of taking ownership. Hence why I am happy to ask questions to make sure I'm not wandering too far off the beaten track. Anyway my Ballerina build is progressing nicely. Nearly finished with the Stbd wing. Top sheeting and cap strips completed. Doing the Wingtip before running the aileron servo cable through the wing and closing off the bottom sheeting. But I do have a question with regards the tip ribs. I don't know if I have made a mistake somewhere with either the Rib profiles themselves, or the cross sectional profiles from the Spars. The rear spar cross sectional profile fits nicely and the cross sectional profile ends the same height as the end of the rib. But the profile from the forward spar sits considerably lower than the height of the ribs as per the supplied images. If I continue that profile down to the tip it intersects the tip exactly as I anticipated so I think the cross sectional profile is correct. I have also checked the Rib Spar cut outs against the plan and confirm that they are also cut to the correct size.  So what am I missing? Or what do I need to adjust to make this align correctly ready for sheeting. 

 

Thanks for the help. 

[Peter Miller]

Looking at the pictures.  Trying to get double curvature on the tip sheet would be almost impossible.   The extension of the sheet spar is a straight taper as shown. Re shape the tip rib to suit.  I do not have the magazine plan at the moment but I have attached my original drawing which I think may be different and is how I actually built the tips.

 

Hope this helps

Ballerina 2.pdf

[jwardlow]

Thanks for the reply. It looks as though I have misunderstood the plan. Looking at your original build blog, it doesn't look as though you utilized these Tip ribs as I have assumed they should be implemented.  I think I will follow your original build as per the attached photo. Ill cut out my forward spar profile extension, and make this go from end rib to tip, and then sheet it.