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Aileron-rudder mixing


Tim Kearsley
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Those of us who fly full-house thermal soarers, do you use coupled aileron-rudder, i.e. an aileron to rudder mix? There seems to be quite a variety of opinions on this, with some saying no mix is better, as in some instances you actually need opposite rudder.

If you do use a mix, what %?

Cheers,

Tim.

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Depends on the model, typically put the mix on an adjuster and fly the model and adjust the amount to suit.

Often have different settings on different flight modes too.

I think the guys saying opposite rudder they may mean opposite aileron, i.e. they are using the rudder to turn and the ailerons to keep the wings level.

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I think you're right Frank, about the opposite rudder/aileron.

My reason for asking, really, is that I have the Sprite-thermal sailplane, from Vladimir models, and in his setup document he suggest an aileron-rudder mix of 200%, which sounds incredibly high to me. That's in thermal mode, where the wing trailing edge is dropped a few mil to increase the camber. In cruise mode he suggests 50%.

Tim.

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I know its not directly relevant to full-house thermal gliders, but since I've stopped mixing rudder to ailerons on everything (power, slope and thermal DLG), my flying got initially harder but gradually better.

The biggest thing that has helped me train my left thumb has been flying a bungee-launched 2mRES recently. The rudder is primarily on the left stick, albeit with a switch programmed to activate right stick also until I got used to using just the left one. I now leave the switch off all the time and happily nudge the model around with just my left thumb.

Moving back to the slope, now with a highly manoeuvrable Ahi, I'm suddenly able to start achieving basic knife-edge flight etc - all because my left-thumb has become better wired to my brain! Funny that.

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Just read your last post Tim - maybe the massive mix on thermal is just based on his personal flying style rather than the model's requirements?

I always understood that - generally - one needs a bit of rudder to co-ordinate with ailerons to enter a turn, but then a bit of opposite aileron to flatten the wings for optimal lift while still using the rudder to maintain the turn. If there's already a CAR mix in place, then the second part is going to require a lot of "opposite" rudder so to speak.

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I think you could well be right Jonathan, and yes, as Frank also said, maintaining the turn with rudder while levelling the wing with aileron does need opposite controls - fighting a CAR mix, as you say.

Your comments about use of the left stick are very interesting. I too fly a RES sailplane - a Super Ava Pro, 3.7m job. I must be honest here and say I use the right stick for rudder! I took the (lazy) view that, as it was my primary (i.e. only) turn control I'd leave it the same as where it is on my aileron-equipped models. But I do acknowledge that I'm not helping myself become more proficient with the rudder by doing so.

Tim.

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When you've dropped the trailing edge a few mm to give camber, a little aileron will give more down aileron travel than up, so increasing the adverse yaw, which is why he possibly recommends more rudder to compensate for this.

I agree with Tim re using your rudder thumb, but when thermaling at height it's often difficult to judge exactly how much rudder to add it and besides it's often nice just to fly with one stick

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I have been flying an Organic in club e-slot comps. for a number of years but it is very unstable at times during turns, usually when it is low down and I am trying to eke out those last few seconds.

I do use rudder independently but have not tried mixing on this model, anybody got similar and use a CAR mix?

Trouble is it only comes out for comps. so have not experimented with it very much.

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I have an aileron to rudder mix on a 2 position switch. I generally fly with the mix on for general soaring but switch off the mix when thermalling.

Very interested to hear your thoughts about the Sprite Tim. Bought a second hand one recently very, very cheaply with all electronics minus Rx. I've been checking things out and working on the set up with the hope of having it ready for next weekend.

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The Sprite is an amazing model Steve. I've set up crow braking and it's just remarkable. You really can just drop the Sprite exactly where you want it when landing. I haven't flown it all that much, but it does catch thermals very well. It's just my expertise as a pilot that doesn't match its potential quite yet!

Tim.

 

Edited By Tim Kearsley on 30/05/2020 19:38:07

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"I must be honest here and say I use the right stick for rudder! I took the (lazy) view that, as it was my primary (i.e. only) turn control"

 

I have to ask why anyone would put rudder, as the only turn control, on the left stick? - except possibly if you are left handed..

I have an MPX Heron on which I use a 50% Ail to Rudder mix but I am not sure it is beneficial and will probably ditch it (the mix not the model) Seperate Rudder is useful when you have an awkward landing approach due to wind direction, you can give a boot full of rudder to straighten the model into wind after a Xwind approach, much more effective than rolling and pulling up elevator.

 

Of course you can still have full use of the rudder even if you use CAR.

Edited By FlyinBrian on 30/05/2020 20:15:10

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Posted by Tim Kearsley on 30/05/2020 19:37:46:

The Sprite is an amazing model Steve. I've set up crow braking and it's just remarkable. You really can just drop the Sprite exactly where you want it when landing. I haven't flown it all that much, but it does catch thermals very well. It's just my expertise as a pilot that doesn't match its potential quite yet!

Tim.

 

Edited By Tim Kearsley on 30/05/2020 19:38:07

Thanks very much for the feedback Tim. I'm really looking forward to getting mine in the air next weekend if possible but I'm not going to rush things just to meet a self inforced deadline. Later in the summer I have first dibs on a Supra and/or a Nan models xplorer 2 if everything works out. I think my expertise as a pilot is going to be lagging behind the potential of the model too! 

 

Edited By Steve Colman on 30/05/2020 21:09:54

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Posted by FlyinBrian on 30/05/2020 20:13:46:

I have to ask why anyone would put rudder, as the only turn control, on the left stick? - except possibly if you are left handed..

Edited By FlyinBrian on 30/05/2020 20:15:10

Must admit on rudder elevator planes I usually have both sticks operate the rudder as I can't get out of the habit of using the left stick when I want rudder. Found out the hard way on bungee launching a rudder elevator glider trying to use the left stick on launch, so since then I make sure the left stick always does something.

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