Dangerous

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andy48]

Posted by Dickw on 11/06/2020 12:39:48:

Agreed that disconnecting the battery is the best safety feature, but having two devices between the battery and the motor, i.e. ESC plus an isolator, has to make the process of connecting and disconnecting the battery (and perhaps moving the model once connected) safer. Both devices are unlikey to fail at the same time.

Dick

Personally I don't move an armed model. I insert the arming plug on the flying field, check the radio operation and then take off. Takes less than a minute. After landing the reverse is the same. The arming plug I keep on the neck strap clip.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Yep so do I, never a radio failure, 40 years. Always a late adopter of new tech, I let other more tech savvy and adventurous explore the new stuff first. After much watching and recommends from the likes of Chris Bott, BEB, Bob Cotsford, Matty B etc etc (Soz if I missed your name off) and our own clubs tech gurus, I took the plunge, happy to report usage confirms said gurus opinions. You Imply "Cheap Chinese" you may fiddle around with yer cap to suit your post, but that's how it comes over.

KISS, and spend your hard earned wisely folk. Stay a Lert.

[Geoff S]

Posted by Dickw on 11/06/2020 14:32:26:

Posted by Allan Bennett on 11/06/2020 13:06:16:

................. I don't see the advantage of putting it in a motor wire unless it makes cable routing easier and/or shorter,

With the arming plug in a motor wire you can power up the ESC and hence the Rx if using a BEC. That way you can test out the radio without fear of the motor running - and no, it won't run or harm the ESC with one wire open circuit - just kick about a bit as Geoff said.

Dick

Quite. Plus it's simpler, too, as well as avoiding lengthening of the battery to esc wiring which can (possibly) damage the esc. Also, if the connection fails, there's still power to the esc and the BEC receiver supply. I've only attempted to run the motor on a couple of occasions when I'd forgotten to complete the circuit and the motor turns about 10 degrees, if that (probably one pole).

btw that isn't my idea. Someone on here suggested it a few years back and on the Gypsy it was so much easier than providing a battery isolating plug. Of course, I always remove the battery immediately after every flight so I can check its voltage, although I'm quite likely to forget to turn off my transmiiter and wonder what that strange voice is muttering - "Inactivity alarm!"

As for my liking of Frsky radio it's not so much that as the disparaging comments about Chinese engineering skills. Now you can justifiably criticise the regime but, as engineers, they as good and innovitive as anybody else. I remember when the same comments were made about so-called 'Jap-Crap' with reference to their copying of cameras etc but I remember being astonished at the quality of Honda motor cycles in the early 60s when the British bikes I rode were vibro-massage machines (and unreliable ones at that). A friend of mine was responsible for setting up a big RR manufacturing facility in Xian, China and he had huge respect for their abilities.

Geoff

[ken anderson.]

me-thinks if Trevor's original question has been answered, that is the end of this thread...……….but I fear its going the way of many before it---and that is..this radio is better than the other...really a lot of these post should be on them thar threads...…...so respect to the Chinese and all the different stuff they supply us with......Amen.

ken anderson...ne...1.....end of thread dept.

[Martin McIntosh]

`That said Martin` does indeed have a PCM9X2 with a DJT module but has yet to fly with it; also a FrSky Tx and half a dozen X8/D8 Rx`s but this is on the back burner now because it is far too easy to misprogram it, i.e., end up with reversed trims etc. He will stick mainly with the DSX9`s.

[Peter Christy]

When talking about radio reliability, what a lot of people overlook is the manufacturing process. For the best part of the last 50 years, bad *designs* have been few and far between. Most were variations (I hesitate to say copies!) of established American designs, and could trace their ancestry back to Don Mathes, Doug Spreng and Frank Hoover (F&M).

However, most were built by relatively small companies - especially in the UK - and the build quality could vary enormously!

Once the Japanese industrial giants entered the market, the game was pretty much up for the small manufacturer. I don't think many people realise how big Futaba (as an example) is! If you have a video recorder, or CD/DVD player, the chances are that many of the fluorescent displays - not to mention many of the internal components - are made by Futaba! And what these industrial giants brought to the party was mass production. Solder flow baths and robotic production could build a thousand boards in the time it would take an individual to make just one. Automated production techniques also made things like poor solder joints history!

Now the tables have turned once again, and the Chinese, with an enormous (and cheap!) workforce are able to mass produce high tech equipment even faster than the Japanese. They also seem to be more flexible and responsive to demand!

They have brought the processes of churning out iPhones and TVs to the model control market!

And don't think the Chinese are just slave labourers. They are very clever! Chinese children were playing with toy helicopters when we were painting ourselves blue and fighting the Romans!

I've been using the FrSky / OpenTx system for around seven years now, and not had any issues. It has proven just as reliable as my JR gear is (still!). As far as this numbering of the receivers goes, every time I have created a new model, the system has automatically attached an unused number to the receiver on binding. Yes, it is possible to over-rule the system, and make it use a number of your choice, but if you do that, you must take responsibility for that choice! It is not easily done by accident! If it were, I would have done it by now...!

I'm not sure how Martin is ending up with reversed trims! No doubt it is possible, but I think you have to work at it! My own technique for setting up models is to leave as much as possible at default settings, and only change things that I actually *need* to change. Because OpenTx has a reputation (undeserved, in my view) for being tricky to set up, its easy to fall into the trap of over-thinking what you are doing.

It really isn't that hard!

--

Pete

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Dickw]

Posted by Andy48 on 11/06/2020 16:00:24:

Posted by Dickw on 11/06/2020 12:39:48:

Agreed that disconnecting the battery is the best safety feature, but having two devices between the battery and the motor, i.e. ESC plus an isolator, has to make the process of connecting and disconnecting the battery (and perhaps moving the model once connected) safer. Both devices are unlikey to fail at the same time.

Dick

Personally I don't move an armed model. I insert the arming plug on the flying field, check the radio operation and then take off. Takes less than a minute. After landing the reverse is the same. The arming plug I keep on the neck strap clip.

If the model is suitable that is an ideal way to operate, but not all models would suit that way of working. It might be difficult to hide an arming plug on a competition level scale model, and a 400 amp arming plug might be a bit difficult to fit in some of my slim-line tightly packed glider fuselages.

It is very easy to forget that we all fly different types of models which have different requirements and ways of operating. If we all flew the same stuff you wouldn't need the flexibility of Open Tx!

Dick

[Andy48]

Posted by Dickw on 11/06/2020 17:53:44:

Posted by Andy48 on 11/06/2020 16:00:24:

Posted by Dickw on 11/06/2020 12:39:48:

Agreed that disconnecting the battery is the best safety feature, but having two devices between the battery and the motor, i.e. ESC plus an isolator, has to make the process of connecting and disconnecting the battery (and perhaps moving the model once connected) safer. Both devices are unlikey to fail at the same time.

Dick

Personally I don't move an armed model. I insert the arming plug on the flying field, check the radio operation and then take off. Takes less than a minute. After landing the reverse is the same. The arming plug I keep on the neck strap clip.

If the model is suitable that is an ideal way to operate, but not all models would suit that way of working. It might be difficult to hide an arming plug on a competition level scale model, and a 400 amp arming plug might be a bit difficult to fit in some of my slim-line tightly packed glider fuselages.

It is very easy to forget that we all fly different types of models which have different requirements and ways of operating. If we all flew the same stuff you wouldn't need the flexibility of Open Tx!

Dick

Just saying that's the way I do it. Hence the word personally. Couldn't be clearer. There is no suggestion in my post that everyone should do it that way. End of! Certainly don't have any gliders or any other plane that use even remotely near 400amps! On one scale model I have, the arming plug is disguised as the steering yoke.

Edited By Andy48 on 11/06/2020 18:14:57

[Martin McIntosh]

Peter C,

On my s/w there are two places in which you can reverse a servo direction and I picked the wrong one which does not include trims. Very interesting test flight when putting in down trim made matters much worse.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter Christy]

Barie: Don't worry! I don't take offence easily, and in discussions like this, I'm always aware that what is written can seem very different from how it would have sounded if spoken! (And I'm not sure I'm as clever as you credit me! I've just been lucky to be in the right place, with the right knowledge, at the right time!)

Martin: Yes, there's the easy way to reverse things and the difficult way! I suspect its the difficult way that caused you the problem! However, the difficult way is there for a reason that becomes apparent when you start doing V-tail or elevon mixing and need to reverse one function, but not both, on a specific output!

And if its any consolation, I got caught out the first time I set up an i/c powered helicopter! My college computer tutors always taught me to apply complex maths (such as curves!) as late in the process as possible, to avoid "rounding errors". (Bear in mind that we are talking of the era of IBM mainframes and DEC mini-computers here!) I dutifully applied the throttle curve at the mixing stage.

This had the unfortunate effect of raising the idle speed when I raised the middle of the curve to raise the hovering head-speed. The ensuing "hot start" had me scrabbling to yank the fuel line off with one hand, whilst hanging on to the rotor-head with the other for dear life!

You see the "trim" is applied at the mixing stage, which is why the idle was suddenly very fast! When I applied the curve at the input stage (before the trim was applied!), the problem went away!

It was very obvious, once it was pointed out to me!

So, not so clever, after all!

--

Pete

[Martin McIntosh]

Jason, on every set I have had the trims work normally so I would have had no reason to check this pre flight since all controls would have already been set at neutral without using trims, not knowing that they could possibly be wrong on a FrSky.

I really like the strong radio link but the rest of it is just too complex for what I need; the alert `RSSI low` when the Tx is too close is also a bit disconcerting.

[Peter Christy]

If you think trim reverse is a problem, you should have a play with my MicroPro 8000!

(This is my 459MHz version)

Servo reversing is achieved by reversing the endpoints for the channel: ie you need to change one end from 1 to 2 mS and the other end from 2 to 1 (you can also adjust the centre!). If you only adjust one end, you get a "V" curve!

The problem is that you have to remember to reverse the rate switches in a similar manner - otherwise, flicking the reverse switch reverses the direction of the channel!

Ooops!

--

Pete

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Martin McIntosh]

Not seen that thing before Peter.

[Peter Christy]

You may remember this version:

Its the single stick version. I use it for fixed-wing aerobatics, and you probably saw me with it a couple of years back when I came up to Watford for that vintage aerobatics competition.

They were actually very advanced for their day. There are eight model memories that you can back up to a PC, it has crossed trims (so no stretching across the face of the Tx on the 2-stick version) and an auto-trim button (re-centres the controls to wherever you are holding the sticks!). You can even adjust the rate at which it re-centers!

8-channels, 8 model memories and 8 mixers! But programming it makes OpenTx look like a doddle in comparison!

As with any system, great flexibility comes at a price - often in the form of more opportunities to mess things up!

--

Pete

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter Christy]

If there's enough interest I can probably write something about Ace. My connection to them was only second hand, as Mick dealt with them directly.

Yes, I did a lot of work on the electronics side for Mick. I know he had a reputation for abrasiveness (!), but the people who got on best with him were those who were not intimidated, and gave as good as they got!

When you got to know him, you could not ask for a better friend, and I actually owed him quite a lot. Shaun Garrity asked me to write a bit about my work for Mick, and he published it in RCM&E an issue or two back. I stopped the article at about the time we were working on 459 MHz, but if there is enough interest, I'm happy to write more.

--

Pete

[Bob Cotsford]

Always interested in hearing about some of the exotica I couldn't afford as a yoof Peter. The only 459 set I ever saw was one Cotswold set that Mick Forbes had on display in Shirley Models.

[Trevor Grace 1]

cant believe where this has gone,think its time to close it.

[Bob Cotsford]

Thread drift is pretty much inevitable Trevor, the main thing is - did you get a second model set up and bound OK? If you are happy and really want the thread closed I'd suggest you report your post with a suitable comment asking for it to be closed in order to bring it to the Mods' attention. Most people just let threads run once they got the info they need, unless things get really contentious!