Difficult transition from stick to switch

[Steve Colman]

After many years of flying motor gliders today I maidened a full house motor glider for the first time with flaps on the left stick and the motor on a switch. Also 3 flight modes on another stick. It was somewhat of a challenge to prevent confusion!

Once up to height with the motor off the model flew well for a maiden flight. To keep things simple I flew in cruise mode throughout the flight. Although some trim changes will need to be made to fine tune everything I was reasonably pleased with how the model performed.

There were however, a few times of "mild" panic as I searched for the correct swith to activate the motor for another climb and then to switch it off again. When I finally managed to execute a safe landing, still in cruise mode and no flaps, without damaging the model I felt somewhat relieved. I'd completed my first flight on what felt a very strange way (to me) to control a model.

I'm surmising that many have gone through similar experiences and it's just a matter of getting used to the new set up? I do want to persevere as I know it's the right way to go.

Would welcome hearing from anyone who has been through this "Transition" themselves and any hints / tips that you might have.

Thanks,

Steve.

 

 

Edited By Steve Colman on 14/06/2020 15:57:51

[Dickw]

I don't know if my experience is any help, but I regularly fly some models with motor on a switch and some with motor on the stick. I think it is just getting used to it, as i have no problem with the transition - frequently several times a day.

Just keep up the practice.

Oh, and I don't think there is any "right way" - just what you are happy with.

Dick

[John Lee]

I have both the flaps/crow & throttle on the left stick & switch between them using flight modes. 3 flight modes - 1) Launch, throttle active, crow disabled, 2) Cruise both throttle & crow disabled 3) Landing Throttle disabled, crow active. I sometimes also have flaps on a separate slider for speed/thermal.

[David Hall 9]

Posted by John Lee on 14/06/2020 16:28:13:

I have both the flaps/crow & throttle on the left stick & switch between them using flight modes. 3 flight modes - 1) Launch, throttle active, crow disabled, 2) Cruise both throttle & crow disabled 3) Landing Throttle disabled, crow active. I sometimes also have flaps on a separate slider for speed/thermal.

Me too.... I do pretty much the same, feels natural... Power mode on an easy to get at switch (which has priority over all other modes)...

[Frank Skilbeck]

I fly all my e-gliders and motor gliders with the throttle on a slider and spoilers/crow braking on the stick, in common with my powerless gliders. I find it easier to modulate the spoilers on landing with the stick, and although I could set up flight modes to switch the control function between spoilers and throttle my preference is to keep the two controls separate.

The only time I have any issue is when taxying my ASK-11, then having power on the same stick as the rudder would be easier, so I may create a taxy mode just for that.

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Steve Colman on 14/06/2020 15:56:42:

After many years of flying motor gliders today I maidened a full house motor glider for the first time with flaps on the left stick and the motor on a switch. Also 3 flight modes on another stick. It was somewhat of a challenge to prevent confusion!

Once up to height with the motor off the model flew well for a maiden flight. To keep things simple I flew in cruise mode throughout the flight. Although some trim changes will need to be made to fine tune everything I was reasonably pleased with how the model performed.

There were however, a few times of "mild" panic as I searched for the correct swith to activate the motor for another climb and then to switch it off again. When I finally managed to execute a safe landing, still in cruise mode and no flaps, without damaging the model I felt somewhat relieved. I'd completed my first flight on what felt a very strange way (to me) to control a model.

I'm surmising that many have gone through similar experiences and it's just a matter of getting used to the new set up? I do want to persevere as I know it's the right way to go.

Would welcome hearing from anyone who has been through this "Transition" themselves and any hints / tips that you might have.

Thanks,

Steve.

Edited By Steve Colman on 14/06/2020 15:57:51

Personally I fly all models, 'regular' power models, glider powered and unpowered, and helis all set up in the same manner, which in my case happens to be mode 1 (though mode 2 would be fine if you prefer it).

All 'extras' go on the same switches or sliders regardless of the model but on some models some or all of these are not configured so do nothing.

That way I do not have to 'get used to' anything.

That said it took me a short while to learn than 'up elevator' on a heli does not mean 'up' but 'go backwards'

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Whatever you decide, check the switch for damage regularly. It will be many years before the memory of a clubmate's shaking hands after landing subsides into the haze of old age...his 7kW F5b glider left his hand and a small piece of metal hit the ground half a second later. Yes, that piece of metal was the throttle switch lever.

It was previously speculated that the phenomenally over rated drive train wouldn't last much longer than the less than 2 second burst which normally took it to a couple of hundred feet and well over 100 mph vertically but it held together for the 45 seconds or so until the energy limiter used for competition cut in.

I can assure you that nobody at the field took their eyes of the model for a fraction of a second during the entire flight - the ballistic missile-like projectile describing gigantic loops in order for the pilot to keep the 2m model in visual range.

Can your transmitter have a non latching switch within reach? Could you consider using that?

[Martin McIntosh]

I may be a bit unconventional here but have been flying my e-slot Organic, glider drive motor, DSX9 gear on mode 1 for quite a few years, so this is the set up:

Mode switch towards me, thermal mode, elevator, ailerons neutral and flaps down 3mm.

Centre position, launch mode, elevator down trim, flaps neutral.

Switch away, full crow.

Only down side is that I have to open the throttle with my chin and with a rather overpowered model this can be hit and miss.

If landing into wind I switch to launch mode to get penetration then when just coming up to the landing spot bang in the crow.

I have the option of adding a bit of flap on a slider but only because the system would not allow me to disable it.

[J D 8]

How about doing some "sofa practice " Going through the flight in your minds eye while operating the switch's in the order required.

[Steve Colman]

Posted by J D 8 on 14/06/2020 19:00:55:

How about doing some "sofa practice " Going through the flight in your minds eye while operating the switch's in the order required.

I did that for a few days when I had everything set up. It was all so easy and logical to me.......piece of cake I thought.

Today at the club for real with the model in the air for the first time was something different altogether!

[Steve Colman]

Thanks for all the comments, some really interesting reading.

[Dickw]

Posted by Martin Harris on 14/06/2020 18:19:27:

Whatever you decide, check the switch for damage regularly. It will be many years before the memory of a clubmate's shaking hands after landing subsides into the haze of old age...his 7kW F5b glider left his hand and a small piece of metal hit the ground half a second later. Yes, that piece of metal was the throttle switch lever.

It was previously speculated that the phenomenally over rated drive train wouldn't last much longer than the less than 2 second burst which normally took it to a couple of hundred feet and well over 100 mph vertically but it held together for the 45 seconds or so until the energy limiter used for competition cut in.

I can assure you that nobody at the field took their eyes of the model for a fraction of a second during the entire flight - the ballistic missile-like projectile describing gigantic loops in order for the pilot to keep the 2m model in visual range.

Can your transmitter have a non latching switch within reach? Could you consider using that?

I learned a few lessons that day

One was not to use a "long lever" switch where I was going to pul back hard as I launched with the other hand - I now use a short lever spring loaded switch for motor and no more problems in then following 6 years!

The second thing was that once the plane had accelerated beyond its normal top speed to something around 200mph the power level had dropped right off to about 2.5 kW (still about twice the motor rating, but survivable).

The third thing I learned was that my 'clubmates' are never going to let me forget it

Dick

[Ron Gray]

For my F5J the throttle stick operates both flaps and throttle, the top half of travel throttle, the bottom half flaps. There is also a timer on the throttle.

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Dickw on 14/06/2020 23:51:32:

Posted by Martin Harris on 14/06/2020 18:19:27:

Whatever you decide, check the switch for damage regularly. It will be many years before the memory of a clubmate's shaking hands after landing subsides into the haze of old age...his 7kW F5b glider left his hand and a small piece of metal hit the ground half a second later. Yes, that piece of metal was the throttle switch lever.

It was previously speculated that the phenomenally over rated drive train wouldn't last much longer than the less than 2 second burst which normally took it to a couple of hundred feet and well over 100 mph vertically but it held together for the 45 seconds or so until the energy limiter used for competition cut in.

I can assure you that nobody at the field took their eyes of the model for a fraction of a second during the entire flight - the ballistic missile-like projectile describing gigantic loops in order for the pilot to keep the 2m model in visual range.

Can your transmitter have a non latching switch within reach? Could you consider using that?

I learned a few lessons that day

One was not to use a "long lever" switch where I was going to pul back hard as I launched with the other hand - I now use a short lever spring loaded switch for motor and no more problems in then following 6 years!

The second thing was that once the plane had accelerated beyond its normal top speed to something around 200mph the power level had dropped right off to about 2.5 kW (still about twice the motor rating, but survivable).

The third thing I learned was that my 'clubmates' are never going to let me forget it

Dick

I use a 'safety switch'.

In addition to the usual 'throttle cut' and the throttle itself (be it on a switch or a stick) I set up an additional switched mixer which also cuts the throttle.

Originally I set up TWO such switched mixers for a smallish DH88 Comet racer twin as I knew it would be tricky and even more so if a motor failed, so I set up one for each motor. This allowed me to cut and restart either motor without affecting the other one so I could practice single engined flight.

Now I do the same on all electric planes. And it would fix Martin's clubmates problem (as his transmitter presumably didn't have a 'regular' throttle cut.)

[Dickw]

Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 15/06/2020 06:59:09:

Posted by Dickw on 14/06/2020 23:51:32:

Posted by Martin Harris on 14/06/2020 18:19:27:........................

....................................

I use a 'safety switch'.

....................... And it would fix Martin's clubmates problem (as his transmitter presumably didn't have a 'regular' throttle cut.)

Hi Richard

To avoid any confusion I should point out that Martin and I are club mates, and are talking about the same (my) incident.

The most emabarrassing thing is that my transmitter does have a throttle safety switch that I could have used if I had thought about it in time.

Flying a 200 mph model is not actually that difficult, but finding yourself unexpectedly flying one, and one without a throttle, (when you have no flight plan in mind) can lead to a very rapid brain overload as you struggle to deal with the immediate issues of keeping it in sigfht and in one piece. The only thing I recall thinking about is where could I safely crash it. I only remembered the safety switch about 2 minutes after landing.

It is emabarrassing, but I don't mind the story being repeated if it helps anyone learn something fom my mistakes rather than making their own.

Dick

[High_Start]

What helps me is that if the throttle is on a switch for a particular model, it is the same red kill switch I use for all powered models. So in my mind it is linked to power on or off anyway. After reading some of the comments I will change it to a different switch for redundancy. Good suggestions here, great forum this is.

[High_Start]

On 14/06/2020 at 21:00, J D 8 said:

How about doing some "sofa practice " Going through the flight in your minds eye while operating the switch's in the order required.

This is very helpful. The mind doesn't know if you are doing it in the mind or for real. I use this as well.