Jon H Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 41 minutes ago, Tim Flyer said: Here is an idea /suggestion which I would like to make ….just in case it’s seen as a useful addition. How about having a “storage oil fill/drain plug” on the bottom of the crankcase? In use the hole would be sealed by fitting of a screw so would have limited impact on dimensions . For storage a nipple would be temporarily fitted to enable the crankcase to be easily filled with oil. Having the additional hole in the crankcase might enable quicker oil filling. Yea this sort of thing has been mentioned before and my question would be 'why do you want to fill it with oil?' Its a bit pointless to be honest as it would serve no practical purpose. Most engines that suffer rust or corrosion are installed in a model so this would not help them at all unless you want to dig into the cowl after every session and then spend half of the next session getting it all out again. Engines in long term storage tend to be ok if they are stored correctly and not left rotting in the shed so there isnt really any value to it. There is also the issue of fiddlers fiddling. The more they have to fiddle with, the more they will fiddle. Before you know it they will have injected all sorts of weird stuff into the crankcase or forgotten to put the plug back, or changed it for a nipple and connected it to the fuel tank for some reason. There will also be the modder's drilling holes in their otherwise good engine to 'upgrade' it. All of this is not likely to do the engine any favours at all. As always the best defence is to run the engines at their optimum tuning and run them as often as you can. The upcoming flat twins are likely to have a different setup on the breathers but there is a specific reason for that due to the configuration of the engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Flyer Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Ok Thanks for clarification Jon , just thought I would mention it in case.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 If wanting to get some oil [ ATF ] in a 4st crankcase I just use a syringe to send some down the vent pipe, place piston at bottom of stroke to start. Piston will then move up allowing the oil in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 31 minutes ago, Jon - Laser Engines said: The upcoming flat twins are likely to have a different setup on the breathers but there is a specific reason for that due to the configuration of the engine. cam driven air pump? oil recirculation? enquiring minds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, J D 8 said: If wanting to get some oil [ ATF ] in a 4st crankcase I just use a syringe to send some down the vent pipe, place piston at bottom of stroke to start. Piston will then move up allowing the oil in. True enough but the question is still, why? What is the purpose of adding oil to the crankcase? The fuel contains oil so why do we need any more? I ask as i had a customer complain for years how messy his engine was and yet he shoved a load of oil up its backside after every flying session. I told him to stop and the problem went away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Nigel R said: cam driven air pump? oil recirculation? enquiring minds... Nothing so fancy. Just a 2nd nipple to drain contaminated oil out at the end of the flying session. As both pistons move together there will be no change in internal volume so oil is more likely to collect in the case. If this is contaminated with methanol then it could cause rust so we can just uncork the drain and let it all out. OS do the same on most of their multi cylinder engines and i have done it on the pegasus in my acrowotxl. Its been 3 years now? no rust yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cripps Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 2nd nipple? So basically what Tim said then ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 54 minutes ago, Nick Cripps said: 2nd nipple? So basically what Tim said then ? no, its for a very different purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 If wanting to get some oil [ ATF ] in a 4st crankcase I just use a syringe to send some down the vent pipe, place piston at bottom of stroke to start. Piston will then move up allowing the oil in. I only do this if laying up engine for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 2 hours ago, J D 8 said: If wanting to get some oil [ ATF ] in a 4st crankcase I just use a syringe to send some down the vent pipe, place piston at bottom of stroke to start. Piston will then move up allowing the oil in. I only do this if laying up engine for a long time. Yea there is an argument for it in that circumstance but in truth i would go without. All of my engines in store get the small prop/fast and hot run on the bench before having their fuel pinched off. Keep trying to start until it wont fire, lock at tdc, wipe with a rag, in a bag and hide it under the bed in a box. I have dug engines out after a decade of storage and they have been just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Define storage... sometimes I don't run an engine for a month, or two months... maybe I mean to but the weather changes or something gets in the way of flying... the engine is there, installed and ready to go, but effectively sat idle. All I have ever really done there is run hot and dry and left them in the shed (mercifully free of damp). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 All you can do, you might need a bearing a bit sooner, but I for one can’t be bothered to disturb a flyable airframe to potentially save a few bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 For various reasons the engine in my sea fury didnt run for about a year and it just hung outside in my model store. It fired right up, bearings are still just fine and it flew as well as it ever did. As discussed before though the key is running the engine at its optimum tuning to prevent the crankcase oil from becoming contaminated with methanol. Its not got to save the day forever, but the engine in the fury is 8 years old now and showing no signs of distress. Its even got its original plugs in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 Once again i was left unattended for a while. To those that asked, yes. I can. Although it works really nicely the engine is rather too long to be practical at 320mm. It would fit a 1/5 Spitfire, and i only built this to test if a 300 tripple would work for my own Spitfire XVI. It does, but again would i be better off with a 60cc inline twin of 285mm long or a 50cc inline 3 of 320mm. Certainly the 60cc would sell better i think and would be easier to run on petrol. Anyway, it kept me entertained for a little while and assuming i can convince the boss to let me do the v4's this would be easy to offer as a made to order custom job. Assuming i get the parts to make anything ? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 I think I am gunna have to read this thread from the first posting. A very interesting thread. I may be able to afford a new laser engine at some point, a petrol powered one me thinks. Are you based in the same area of the country that the good Dr. Lanchester was ? He did a lot of work on crankshaft balance, design vibration damper etc.. Your a very lucky fellow John working in a field you enjoy. Respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Very nice, is the a 120 degree crank or did you go with the original Laverda Jota 180 Degree triple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Dance 1 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Now you've been and done it!? Great sound. Is the crank spaced at 270 degrees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Dance 1 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Finger trouble as Frank says 120 degrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 Due to component limitations its more like an inline 4 with a cylinder missing. Cylinders 1 and 3 are in parallel but fire 360' apart. Cylinder 2 is 180 degrees offset to the other two and fires in the middle. If you start with cylinder 1 the engine fires 1, 360', 3, 180', 2, 180'. 1 and so on. I was very happy with how smooth the engine ran as the middle cylinder cancels out one of the others leaving it no more imbalanced than a standard laser 80 and they not exactly a problem. The uneven fire is also quite pleasing on the ear. I am considering getting a 300 prototype together and fitting it to my yellow spitfire XIV. I already cut the cowl for a 300v, but i could patch it in easily enough and its a good match for the engine due to its composite fuselage and the way the cooling works in the yellow spit by design might actually mean it needs few mods. We will see. If i do build one for the Spit XIV i may need another for my Spit XVI and P51 both at 5th scale. A friend is also interested for his Richard Rawle Spitfire IX in 5th scale. It is hilariously long and if you use a 1/5 scale spitfire as an example the engine is more or less the length of a Merlin at that scale. This does mean that you have the advantage of mounting the engine on the 'scale' firewall of a spitfire and putting the cowl on top, but in practice this means the engine mounts behind the wing leading edge. This is not the end of the world, but most models use the wing leading edge to hold the wing to the fuselage so some modification would be required. High energy aerobatics would also be a no no with an engine this long. There would be mega leverage on the firewall but as not many spitfires do snap roll's i do not consider this to be a big issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike skingle Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 A challenge for you Jon an eight cylinder radial 2 banks of 4 cylinders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 I don`t understand. If you can make a 300 triple, then why not 300Vs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 I guess a side mounted cam would be ideal for the inline... but no easy way for you to make such a thing Jon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Nigel R said: I guess a side mounted cam would be ideal for the inline... but no easy way for you to make such a thing Jon? I am told its too complicated. ? Also in fairness, im not a fan of side cams as it puts intake and exhaust on the same side. This isnt ideal for a number of reasons. In an ideal world i would use different heads on the inline with a wider spacing of the intake and exhaust. This would allow the engine to be shorter in length while still retaining the laser shape. I would also like to use a different interface between the crank components to allow for different crank angles to be tried. Again, i am told this is too complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Martin McIntosh said: I don`t understand. If you can make a 300 triple, then why not 300Vs ? as i do not have the parts to build 300v's i have sufficient free time to dream up new ideas. A rummage through my boxes of dead engines a prototype parts, a hacksaw, a dremel, plus a few hours in the shed at home and assistance from friends with certain resources mean i can come up with things from time to time. The 3 cyl engine in the video was created from my 160 inline prototype, melded with a crank (modified), piston and liner from the 320 V4 prototype, the head and carb from my geared 100 prototype and a few other bits and bobs. Its now dead as i turned it back into a 160 inline as it proved what i wanted to prove and i still need to find an airframe to test the 160i. The modified crank from the 320 v4 also failed on the 2nd run in the same way it did on the v4 so there was no point continuing as i do not have one of those cranks of the revised and reliable design. So I now have to make the required parts for the 300 to prove that concept as well. At which point my 200i prototype will be cut n shut into a 300 provided i can get the required assistance to make a certain part and modify another prototype bit i have kicking about in my box. I would be happy to sell you something Martin, but i cant, so i am doing what i can to keep myself occupied, even if the result is hilariously impractical. If you think you can do a better job, you are welcome to take mine. Edited November 12, 2021 by Jon - Laser Engines 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 keep the faith comrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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