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Laser Engines development.


Jon - Laser Engines

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Its a scarcity price . If someone wants one and cant get it anywhwere else then the price goes up . Yes its greed in some ways and in my view silly to pay these high prices .As you say John , you can make them but its getting the parts , so technically they are not available . If you had the parts and they were on offer at a reasonable price then it would kill the greedy collectors overnight . But then you say you would make changes . Collectors want all marks including early versions warts and all so pay the price . Its a Collector thing .

We regularly see ED Baby engines go for £70 upward. They were £2-19s-6d when I was a boy . even allowing for inflation thats still a good return . The sellers aren't forcing people to buy there wares so why is everyone getting so hot under the collar ?

This seller obviously has a lot of  money and probably pays way over the top but thats his choice . I find it ammusing but Just my view . If someone pays those sort of prices they deserve what they get .

I'm sure if you got the bits made for some diesel Lasers they would fly off the shelves .

Edited by Engine Doctor
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Just to close this one down as we are off topic. 

 

My beef with these 'collector' prices is that i dont build engines for collectors. I build them for people to use, and fly, and enjoy. And yes i know some will say that they enjoy it just as much in a glass case, but to me they are things that should be used and they have a set value. Pricing them up like this means very few can get a hold of one and use it so somewhere there is a keen modeller who wants it but he needs to sell a kidney to buy one. 

 

I have the same issue with these buy to let investors who snap up all the cheap housing and then rent it back to people at extortionate rates. 

 

There is no excuse for this and I find this sort of greed offensive. The last person who bought engines from me and flipped them like this has been blacklisted. i will never sell them another engine and the same will happen to anyone else who tries it. 

 

Sorry to be a grump about it, i just cant stand this sort of thing. 

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Sorry Jon but Laser are the cause of the problem. You produce brilliant engines, introduce new ones that have the ‘WOW’ factor, everyone raves over them but, and here is the fundamental problem (which you are always honest about) you don’t produce enough of them. If you did then supply would meet demand and the prices wouldn’t skyrocket!

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Like it or not, you don't control the second hand market (or what people do with their toys once they've bought them). As Ron says, make more, and the fleabay prices would drop.

 

And whilst I get that you want the things used, end of day, customers is customers, and they're always right.

 

 

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 No, just no.

 

if you buy something for 300 quid and then try to sell it for 1500 you are deliberately trying to rip people off. If you listed it at 99p and folk bid it to 1500 on their own that is one thing, but to go in asking for 1500 when you know its only worth 300 then you are a straight up thief preying on the fact that the person you are selling it to has no idea what you paid for it and what its worth. Its just completely dishonest and it boggles my mind how you have the audacity to not only defend these people but then blame me for it. 

 

This is especially galling when i am locked in a constant battle with the boss to keep engine prices down to a point where normal people can actually afford to buy them. 

 

😡

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A thing is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, they are not being forced to pay what is being asked. No different to selling ‘collector type’ cars or motorbikes. On the latter, just look to see how much a 1968 Bonny, a Triumph Hurricane X75 or a Manx Gold Star are up for sale for.

 

Sorry that you’ve taken my comments personally, all I have done is state the facts!

Edited by Ron Gray
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On 13/01/2022 at 08:25, Jon - Laser Engines said:

Frank nailed it. 

 

All (as far as im aware) glow engines are measured in cui but petrol engines tend to be in cc. 

 

As for 2 strokes, we wont have any of that filth around here 🤣

 

EDIT: Yep, that makes sense Frank. My old 45's have it on the backplate if i remember rightly but they are a fair bit bigger physically i think. I would like to get my hands on a saito 40 (a new one) at some stage as it looks rather compact. 

 

Sorry Jon.

 

IMGP0183.JPG

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I am a socialist. Not a political statement, it is the basis for a moral life as I see it.

 

But Jon, I plead with you, do you back your motor against an OS. I would, and I like OS motors.


Price for price, why is your motor cheaper.

If it sold  for the same money, would your boss at least make more bits, to make more motors, and see off the stupid second hand market. He would see a means to make  money, or at least justify machine time. No one loses, those who can’t afford new, buy secondhand, with care. In a realistic secondhand market. 
I’ve said my piece. I’m out of this discussion. No more to say. I hope that no one is upset, as I think I need to say it, out of respect. 

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5 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

A thing is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, they are not being forced to pay what is being asked. No different to selling ‘collector type’ cars or motorbikes. On the latter, just look to see how much a 1968 Bonny, a Triumph Hurricane X75 or a Manx Gold Star are up for sale for.

 

Sorry that you’ve taken my comments personally, all I have done is state the facts!

I don't know about anyone else being upset but you brought a little dampness to my eyes...my '68 Bonneville was stolen some years ago and due to clerical errors slipped through the police and DVLA systems until I was finally reunited with a few parts (that's another story) including the frame, back wheel and seat after a protracted battle with the local boys in blue about 15 years later.  Having bought it in 1974, it was my bike for life as far as I was concerned so never saw it as an investment and there's never been any feeling of financial loss - despite the modern prices!

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Jon none of what I wrote was intended as a personal attack or slight in any way. Apologies if it came across as such. 

 

Not am i trying to defend folk who ask high prices. My comments were again meant to be neutral.

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I really feel for you Martin, I never owned a ‘68 but always hankered after one but could never afford one ‘back in the day’. The Hurricane was the one though, when I first saw one it looked drop dead gorgeous and was what the triple should have looked like straight from the factory. It’s limited, custom, production (only 1200) is the reason it’s second hand price is so high, the point of my posts.

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There will always be the rip off merchants, the rotton apple in the barrel.

Jon has always done his best to allow the average modeller to afford quality product at an affordable price. And his efforts in designing and producing them is great. 

I suspect the majority of modellers are not those with bottomless bank accounts, and have to balance want/need with affordability.

You are doing fine Jon more strength to your arm.

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Back to Laser petrol's -

Jon, in the beginning there was talk of a proposed 20cc version petrol development as well as the 30cc - is the 20cc dead? Only my hand is still up for one 🙏

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Sorry Ace, i was so angered by all the ebay nonsense i rage quit the forum for a few days. 

 

180 petrol's under way, and i need backplates done for the flat twins. As the machine is tooled up for backplates i have also asked for 155 and 360v petrol backplates. I was nodded at so it might happen? 

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Cheers Jon, I take that as the 120 petrol is dead for the foreseeable future. Which is fine just needed to know, so now need to look at alternatives.

 

Kevin - bit harsh for a legitimate question.

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19 minutes ago, Ace said:

Cheers Jon, I take that as the 120 petrol is dead for the foreseeable future. Which is fine just needed to know, so now need to look at alternatives.

 

Kevin - bit harsh for a legitimate question.

 

I thought it was a 155 you wanted? I dont recall discussing a 120. Not that it matters, i could make a 120 petrol with the 155 parts, although i am not exactly sure what the point would be. The 120 is already a bit hot and its glow fuel consumption is not high. Its also got a smaller big end bush than the 155/180 and i dont know how well that will hold up. 

 

It would be fun to try one, but i doubt we will ever produce it unless people are happy to pay £450-500 for them, which i doubt. 

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1 hour ago, Ace said:

Cheers Jon, I take that as the 120 petrol is dead for the foreseeable future. Which is fine just needed to know, so now need to look at alternatives.

 

Kevin - bit harsh for a legitimate question.

Wasn't meant to be harsh. That's why I added the smiley.

If Jon is really busy he can sometimes take a while to respond.

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1 hour ago, Ron Gray said:

Flat Twin (FT)

 

I got that part, i just wasnt sure which aspect you were asking about. As i mentioned in my reply to Ace i am waiting on the backplates. We only made 2 first time round in case tweaks were needed once the crankcases were manufactured, and sure enough...

 

But, we are getting there. Just need to sort backplates, exhausts, mounts, and get the liners back...3 weeks? maybe? 

 

 

 

 

20220126_094836[1].jpg

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