Cheap or good Quality Lipos ???

[tigerman]

Trying to make my mind if you are better buying cheap lipo from say Hobby King ( I not knocking Hobby King ,I have had good lipo from Hobby King ) or buy more expensive lipos .An example is you can almost buy 2 Zippy 4c lipos from HobbyKing or one 4c lipo from Motion RC ( Admiral pro Lipo ) I have brought the Admiral pro from Motion RC and they are excellent lipos and are performing really well and are lasting with out any problems ,but I could of brought 2 4c lipo from Hobby King for the same price So what the verdict buying 1 good quality lipo that last and performs great or have 2 cheaper lipo for the same price I think with out doubt the Admiral pro lipo are the better battery but are they better then 2 Zippies from Hobby King ? Be intersted to find out what people think is the best option overall

[Jason-I]

I'd take two Turnigy's over the Admiral pros every day of the week. In fact, I have done exactly that with all my 5000mah 6s lipos,

[Barryorbik]

I just purchased two 3S 2200 30C Turnigy (blue) packs from HK, and as a normal procedure I check their ESR on receipt with a Wayne ESR meter, and these are the first packs I have ever had where all of the cells in each pack were perfectly matched. Normally one cell in a pack has a higher ESR than its pack mates, which limits the overall C rating of the pack. Often a 40Crated pack will end up with an actual ESR value of 25C or less, but these calculated out at 29C. Their performance in a 450 helicopter last weekend in strong winds proved they were excellent packs.

Barry

[PatMc]

The cost of lipos is not a measure of their quality, good or otherwise.

[brokenenglish]

Respectfully, the thread title is a little off track. I think you mean "Cheap or more expensive" and not "Cheap or good quality" (how do you measure the quality?).

I've only ever purchased Lipos from HK Europe and, from what I read on the forums, mine perform at least as well as everyone else's. I certainly have no intention of changing.

[leccyflyer]

Like Pat said cost is not a determinant of quality in this case. The worst lipos I ever had were the grossly overpriced Flightpower lipos, which didn't last ten flights. Kokam packs bout at the same time were usuable years later, as were the best value for money packs Loong Max.

[Peter Miller]

I have only ever bought Turnigy from HobbyKing.

My 3S 2200 Mah ones have been used regularly in my Ohmen and other models for over 2 years and are still going strong.

My 3S 3000Mah Turnigys have been used regulalry fro about a year and when checked with my new model were still delivering 376 Watts.

Flight times have remained the same.

[tigerman]

Interesting .I must admit I think most of you are right ,just because one make of lipo is more expensive does not mean it is better quality .I have been using the Zippy battery from Hobby King and they are just as good has the expensive lipo ,mind you I have yet to find out what the Zippy battery is like after a period of time but has you can get 2 Zippies for the price of one more expensive lipo.If you add the life of two zippies you are more then likely getting more flying time with the 2 Zippies .Conclusion for me then is I will stick with the Hobby King Zippy battery

Thanks everyone for your input

[PeterF]

Mixed experience here, I had some Zippy compact 3700mAh 6S from HK and they started swelling after perhaps 40 flights and losing a bit of voltage at full throttle and some capacity. Got perhaps 80 cycles out of them, they were still working but had lost too much performance. I have replaced them with Overlander Supersport Pro 3900mAh now up to 50 cycles, still as good as new and no signs of swelling yet. Verdict more expensive better in this case.

I had some Loong Max Tipple 4500mAh 3S for perhaps 10 years, no record of the number of flights but a lot, they were my mainstay batteries for a while. Verdict, cheap batteries lasted very well in this case.

I have a twin 70mm EDF that pulls 105A at WOT, I have Turnigy Heavy Duty 5000mAh 4S cells, getting close to 90 cycles, the batteries are still performing excellently and no swelling. The only downside is to get the high C rating, they are perhaps 20% heavier than equivalent Overlander cells. Verdict, if you can tolerate the weight, the cheaper batteries have performed very well.

I think my mistake with the Zippy compact batteries was to believe I could use 25C rated batteries in planes that ran at 15 to 18C, and the issues may not have occurred if I had bought the 35C version.

[Chris Walby]

I don' think the question can be answered.

Partly it depends on testing the same specification lipo back to back, not just capacity, but C rating and discharge performance.

And partly on what you are using them for.

Example A Peter Miller Ohmen on 3S2200 WOT at 29A so well with the 20C rating with more than enough performance. So landing with +30 capacity left and just warm lipo.

Example B SU47 edf on 6S4000 WOT at 120 A needs a very high C rating of there is insufficient fan performance to get it off the deck, has to be flown at 3/4 to WOT and land within 3 min 20 seconds of take off with somewhere between 4 and 15% left and a very warm battery.

No real surprise the SU47 batteries don't last long because they are being hammered and that the 3S2200 last well although they are cheaper/lower C rating in comparison.

I buy lipos according to the performance I expect them to achieve and they seem to been okay.

HK Turnagy lasted well, but had on fail on the 5 flight

HK Nanotec, last well considering the hammering they get

HK Graphine last well and perform well considering he hammering they get

4-Max last well but don't get a hard life

Laser engines perform well, reliable and not worn one out yet or ever likely to.

[John Lee]

The Optipowers used by the RC Hotel are impressive. Typically they are recharged several times a day, 7 days a week, 7 months of the year and most seem to last at least 3 years despite all the abuse. Spiros' experience of HK cells are that they last only a few weeks in his high use environment before swelling, so the Optipowers are very cost effective.

I still can't bring myself to pay the price of the Optipower though, I mainly use Zippys which last pretty well if taken care of.

[Nigel R]

I bought a number of zippys and rhinos from HK about three years ago, I have three pack sizes with six of each size.

My installs typically use about 10C max current or so (highest multiple is 28A on the 2200mAh batteries I think). Usually I would take all of one particular size for my weekly session, and fly each pack once. I don't stress the packs in any particular way. Most packs are around 60 cycles now. They're still going strong 3 years later, although I expect to start bumping into the end of their shelf life soon.

At £5, £15 and £20 for respective pack sizes, they've worked out pretty good on the cost front. I have had best value by far from the 4S 2200mAh size.

Would buy again.

[ken anderson.]

HK/Turnigys are good....thought I would post a reply before the arguments start...

ken anderson...ne..1...turnigy dept.

[Dickw]

Having seen others have good performance with Turnigy Graphenes a few years ago I bought 4 x 5s packs to make into 2 x 10s packs. They were great peformers and seemed to be lasting well, so the following year I bought 4 more of the same packs. Within 6 months all the new packs had given up the ghost and were in the bin. I know I push my packs hard, but the originals kept going for another couple of years. I wasn't the only one who had that experience with them either.

Do suppliers use good cells to build a reputation and then move to cheaper cells, or was it just a bad (very big) batch? I am not convinced either brand or price are necessarily a good guide on what to expect!

Dick

[Vecchio Austriaco]

I think the most important thing is not to overload them and not to empty them down to zero.

I am happy with Turnigy nano tech, so far no blow-up. The normal Zippy tends to blow up after not too many cycles, but probably I wanted more than it could deliver.

Absolute record battery is my Hacker top fuel 2450 3s (30 continuous, 50 burst), I bought it in 2008 and it is still ok as on the first day. No blow-up, no tiredness. And it had to work, as it is used for my edge 540 ep, my Dawnflyer and probably will also power the Tucano.

VA

[Mike T]

Posted by Dickw on 21/07/2020 17:52:43:

Do suppliers use good cells to build a reputation and then move to cheaper cells...

I work on the basis that they do.

Every time I've bought the latest 'best LiPos ever', I've usually been disappointed when I went back for more. I generally buy, say 4, packs of whatever is being touted when they first come out, then no more.

LiPos I always buy cheap. A cheap pack that fails, you shrug and write it off. An expensive pack that fails, you get annoyed...

[Tim Ballinger]

I’ve had two of the cheaper makes go puffy . For the last 4 years just used 4 max. All as tight as ever they were. However as others have said doing the right thing by your battery and never abusing it is probably the real key to longevity. Perhaps I have just got better at looking after them. Not changing now though, that would be tempting fate.

Tim

[Capt Kremen]

Anyone know how many of our typical LiPo, (far east produced), manufacturers there actually are?

Is it a case of only 2 or 3 producers and they 'badge' the packs to the distributor requirements? Maybe they grade check the IR and the best matching are the most expensive and less so the cheaper line but ALL from the same production run and the same supposed spec perhaps(?)

Personal experience after using most available brands and dealers - Hobby King All their types including Graphene, Overlander, 4-Max, Flightpower etc. etc., had good and bad regardless of cost. Often think it is down to the batch available at the time of purchase. Have bought say brand 'A', which proved acceptable, come to purchase another couple of identical packs from the same vendor and they've not been the same. Buy another same stated spec from brand 'B' and then they've been OK. Add factors such as one retailer can buy in 500 of a certain spec and size whilst another retailer 5,000 of identical and the unit cost for a pack is probably going to be different. 

Edited By Capt Kremen on 23/07/2020 16:12:14

[MattyB]

Posted by Dickw on 21/07/2020 17:52:43:

Having seen others have good performance with Turnigy Graphenes a few years ago I bought 4 x 5s packs to make into 2 x 10s packs. They were great peformers and seemed to be lasting well, so the following year I bought 4 more of the same packs. Within 6 months all the new packs had given up the ghost and were in the bin. I know I push my packs hard, but the originals kept going for another couple of years. I wasn't the only one who had that experience with them either.

Do suppliers use good cells to build a reputation and then move to cheaper cells, or was it just a bad (very big) batch? I am not convinced either brand or price are necessarily a good guide on what to expect!

I have seen this inconsistency too for some lipo brands, though all my Graphenes have held up well so far.

It has been posted online by people who allege to have inside information that Hobbyking lipos all come from the same handful of factories which bid competitively on tenders from HK to build the packs. That may explain the inconsistency, as one batch of (say) ZippyC 4s 2200s might be made from different cells in a different factory via a different method than another batch of "identical" packs. I have no proof of this, but it doesn't sound unlikely given the small margins HK must operate on.

Edited By MattyB on 23/07/2020 16:08:53

[Sparks]

Gens Ace LiPos have given me good service (I think I bought them from Giant Cod back in the day!) . Most are now over 5 years old and still performing well.

[Richard Clark 2]

Worldwide there aren't many Lipo manufacturers and most are in China.

Even Thunder Power of Las Vegas, which was the first 'consumer' supplier of all, has only ever 'assembled' them.

Saft of France was an early 'genuine' manufacturer. I dunno if they still make them.

[Allan Bennett]

As a 'Sunday-only' flyer I've come to the conclusion that the most cost-effective for me is to use the blue Turnigy 20-30C packs. Many years ago I bought some very expensive Thunder Power 6S 3900mAh Prolite packs and decided on only a couple, with a view to field-charging them.

After a while I realised I could get many more Turnigy 6S 3300mAh 30-40C (same size and weight as the TPs) packs for about half the price of the TPs, and by having more packs I could save myself the slog of having to bring charging gear to the field. My TPs are nine years old now, and my oldest Turnigy is seven years, with no signs of puffing.

[Maurice Dyer]

I find the same answer (no puffing and power delivery) with both Overlander and Tipple.

Got Lipid ten years old from both and still satisfactory. But I always employ the 80% rule.

Charge rate 80%: power usage @ 80% and 80% left at storage over Winter.

Maury

[Richard Clark 2]

The comments so far indicate it's all a 'lucky dip'.

1) There are very few actual cell manufacturers.

2) Some suppliers are just 'assemblers' of bought-in cells and having 'assembled' them into packs put their own label on.

3) The rest have the actual manufacturer assemble the packs with the suppliers label on. (That's a common practice for all sorts of things - my previous Mercedes had no Mercedes made content at all and Mercedes didn't assemble it either.)

4) The cell menufacturer changes according to present availability and/or the lowest quoted per cell price.

5) The claimed C rating is never true. Attempt to draw the full claimed 'continuous' current from  the high C rated ones and the external wires would melt even if the cells survived. Don't believe me? Take a look at the thickness of the wire to your car starter motor., and they are only used in 'bursts'. The wire would be even thicker if they  were used continuously.

Used 'sensibly' I've never had the expensive Thunder Power or the old quite cheap 'Intellect' batteries from Ripmax fail in service and all have lasted a reasonable time.

Some Overlander ones have failed but then I buy far more of those.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 24/07/2020 02:12:06

[Cuban8]

Managed to order the last two 2600 3S lipos from HK's UK warehouse on Wednesday - due to be delivered today. £35 delivered - or could have could gone overland to pay twice the price for a single equivalent. With HK's present troubles along with other global suppliers, our hobby might be getting a whole lot more expensive and parts far less available.