Import and VAT

[Nigel R]

Add me to the long list of those caught out by charges.

Two bearings, odd size, came from the states. Didn't really think about it at the time, they were $20 apiece which is outrageous enough, but, they're a funny size, made of unobtanium, etc. International post of $15 smarted a bit, but hey ho. Exchange rate at the moment puts that at a fairly sharp £43.

Parcelfarce have seen fit to charge me £12 VAT (which is wrong, unless 20% of £43 really is £12) and another £12 "handling fee" on top, for the privilege of being forced to use their "service".

Ouch!

Yet another black mark against Parcelforce, for me, in fact every encounter I have ever had with Parcelfarce has gone wrong in some way or another.

At least Royal Mail (who definitely are nothing to do with Parcelforce) had the decency to charge me a single digit handling fee last time I ordered from abroad - and they got the VAT right.

Here's hoping the new-old-stock Makita drill on its way from Korea slips past their noses.

Some chance!

[mal brewer]

Hello Nigel, I've a feeling that all costs,including the Parcelforce 'handling charge', are liable to the VAT surcharge. That would make the £12 charge about correct. I stand to be corrected though..................Mal

[Nigel R]

The VAT is only applicable to the charges paid outside this country, says the governments own webpage.

The thing that has irked me about that is that VAT of £11.98 is 20% of £59.90, and £59.90 doesn't correlate to anything that I have paid, not £43 in the first place, not $56 "accidentally" read as £56, not £43 plus £12 handling, there's just no combination of relevant numbers that add up to £59.90.

I do realise I'm getting cheesed off about the difference between £11.98 and £8.62 (going on exchange rate at time of purchase) but it's as usual the principle of the thing, when it comes to most public bodies, as usual, balls it up first, then don't offer a realistic way to fix it.

Actually, I'm also slightly irked about the ridiculous handling fee. Thanks for nothing, PF.

[Stephen Smith 14]

Refuse to pay there hadelling charge, you have never contacted with them, or asked them to pay the vaton your behalf. Only pay them the import duty and the vat, you will have to stand your ground and may take a couple of days extra to get your goods but you will. I have done it twice now both times I have ended up dealing with there head office and arguing about contractual law. Also go on social media and tell the story, they hate it when people post about it and contractual law.

[kevin b]

As far as I am aware no other Vat registered company is allowed to charge the customer for collecting VAT. It is illegal. There again who is their biggest share holder ?

Do other countries postal services do the same ?

Note for future reference. If buying from the USA, buy through ebay and use their international shipping system. It is by far the cheapest (and often quickest) delivery service and they don't charge extra for processing the customs charges.

[Gary Murphy 1]

The reason I do not buy from overseas now is the way the handling/duty/vat/tax etc is worked out. Like Nigel said,my costs never added up correct. always took the amount from full cost,without the allowance. I tried once to get a refund contacted Parcelforce who said its not their problem pointed to HM what not,gave up in the end. 2 more times I had this, the last 2 were around a fiver,not a lot BUT I know for a fact it was wrong!

[Guvnor]

Posted by kevin b on 10/09/2020 20:09:24:

As far as I am aware no other Vat registered company is allowed to charge the customer for collecting VAT. It is illegal. There again who is their biggest share holder ?

Do other countries postal services do the same ?

Note for future reference. If buying from the USA, buy through ebay and use their international shipping system. It is by far the cheapest (and often quickest) delivery service and they don't charge extra for processing the customs charges.

They aren't charging for collecting the VAT, they're charging for taking the goods from the point of import to your house.

The sender isn't paying it, why should they do it for nothing?

[Stuart C]

Ball bearings from the USA are also subject to 8% import duty. Gets pretty close to your £12.00

[Ian Southerton 1]

I bought a brushless motor from Hobbyking China as it was the only warehouse with the motor I wanted.

I paid extra postage so it was insured.

The motor and a host of other people's parts were sent from China to Holland and then individually to the UK.

I was then charged import duty and a Parcelforce handling fee.

The £24 motor ended up costing £48. Next time I'll pay a little extra and buy from th UK as it will be cheaper in the long run!!

[FlyinFlynn]

Posted by Stuart C on 11/09/2020 00:06:27:

Ball bearings from the USA are also subject to 8% import duty. Gets pretty close to your £12.00

According to https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty import duty is only applied on items in excess of £135

[Engine Doctor]

Only ever had one ball bearing that was unobtainable other than from the manufacturer ,OS in this case as it was made for a specific use/ engine. Could it really not be sourced from a UK bearing specialist ?

Edited By Engine Doctor on 11/09/2020 11:14:50

[Mike T]

Posted by FlyinFlynn on 11/09/2020 10:46:08:

According to https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty import duty is only applied on items in excess of £135

Quite right. The £135 includes cost of goods plus shipping (i.e. the entire 'value' of the transaction). Duty is levied on this and for the kind of stuff that we buy ('toys' ) is usually no more than 2%. VAT is then added on top of all that.

The fee charged by the company handling the import is not only for the final delivery to you, but also to cover the cost of accounting for the duty and VAT and reporting/remitting this to HMRC. Someone has to do it and systems put in place to manage it. This costs...

Anything from 'abroad' (shortly to include 'Europe'...) which in total costs less than £18 is duty and VAT free. Over £18 and up to £135 and you pay the VAT and the handling fee.

Edited By Mike T on 11/09/2020 12:24:04

[Andy J]

Have avoided buying from the US ever since I got stung with a $80 PSU kit several years ago. Looks like I will have to add Europe to the list of countries to be avoided at the end of this year.

[kevin b]

Posted by Guvnor on 10/09/2020 23:50:41:

They aren't charging for collecting the VAT, they're charging for taking the goods from the point of import to your house.

The sender isn't paying it, why should they do it for nothing?

I'm sorry, but the buyer has already paid for delivery to their house. People who buy lower value (nontaxable) items don't have to pay for this service and all parcels have to come through customs on their way to the delivery agent. Reciprocal agreements with other countries mean that they can't charge the customer. This is their way of getting around it.

Items purchased through ebay with international delivery only get charged with one delivery charge and one VAT charge. Some other international carriers do the same. Though in my experience with importing many of them are nearly as bad as solicitors for charging. In honesty the only ones who you know exactly where you stand with are Customs and Excise !

[jrman]

I have recently bought two model related items from the USA, both from different vendors and I received both within 2 days of order with the UK 20% VAT being paid at point of purchase. Delivery to my door was by UPS for one order and DHL for the other. Parcel force were not involved and no VAT collection fee was charged? I think it is US Postal Service that use Parcel Force for the delivery and VAT payment in the UK. I just specify for USPS not to be used.

Edited By jrman on 11/09/2020 19:14:50

[Scott Edwards 2]

It looks like from January 1st goods from the EU could be treated just like goods from the USA are currently. That's 20% VAT, 2.5% Customs duty, plus whatever the Royal Mail feel like adding for deigning to 'handle' it for us.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

But won't those goods be sent VAT free - and as many EU countries charge higher VAT rates than we do, some or all of the Customs Duty may be absorbed, meaning that the cost could actually be less than it would be today?

I'm probably wrong, but a quick reading of the regulations indicates that at present, most of the VAT levied goes to the originating state, with a small proportion to the EU administration. It would appear that buying, presumably tax free*, from the EU would then allow the UK to benefit from the entire amount of VAT/duty levied on the consumer?

* VAT is a tax on goods used in the UK and EU, so if goods are exported outside the UK and EU, you do not charge VAT. You can zero rate the sale, as long as you get and keep evidence of the export, and comply with all other laws.

(I assume that the references to the UK in the above can be deleted post 31st of December.)

Edited By Martin Harris on 12/09/2020 11:30:39

[ROSS MANSELL 1]

I often buy from a German firm. They charge German VAT on goods at 19% at buying source..and I pay for DHL mailing. I have bought goods valued at £70 and over ..no other charges other than the mailing cost (usually around Eoro 9.00 and delivery in 3 to 4 days.)

I have queried one carrier charging me extra for handling some goods imported and chanllenged them that the goods had been paid for delivery to destination and I was not prepared to pay anything else. I paid the vat and that was it...

They are charging illegally for handling as far as I and others are concerned. as delivery has already been paid to them .

[Jesus Cardin]

Posted by Andy Joyce on 11/09/2020 12:48:10:

Have avoided buying from the US ever since I got stung with a $80 PSU kit several years ago. Looks like I will have to add Europe to the list of countries to be avoided at the end of this year.

Same but opposite happens to modelers to other side of the channel!

I am afraid I will have to look twice before continue buying plan packs, plans, model books and model magazines from UK. Or buying them all before 21st December!

[FlyinBrian]

I recently bought a glider carry bag from the Czech Republic, it was a custom made item for the TOPMODELCZ Element that I am assembling. It cost 99.50 Euros inc postage and Vat. No extras were charged and it arrived in 3 days.

Best way to import from the USA is to make friends with an American and have them forward stuff to you as a gift stating the value to be say $55.95 or whatever. Also US servicemen can import from home without duty and VAT,

[Mike T]

Posted by Scott Edwards 2 on 11/09/2020 19:32:35:

It looks like from January 1st goods from the EU could be treated just like goods from the USA are currently. That's 20% VAT, 2.5% Customs duty, plus whatever the Royal Mail feel like adding for deigning to 'handle' it for us.

Actions usually have consequences...

[Nigel R]

ED the bearings were old irvine 40 mains, the odd mixed metric / imperial size. The only place I knew of that sells them is boca.

Last time I bought a pair of bearings from them I escaped any charges so it didn't really register that I might get hit when I did this order!

[Jesus Cardin]

Two important details:

1.- When you buy from USA you are not charged any USA tax; if you lived in the same Estate where the shop you are buying from is located you should be charged with the corresponding sales tax (from 18 to 25% dependending on Estates), so you should considere normal and correct to be charged VAT when goods arrive to UK!

2.- From 1st january 2021 and when buying from continental "Europe" you should have to ask the supplier to deduce his country VAT as you will have to pay the corresponding charge in UK so, perhaps, difference will not be so terrible -even for me when ordering from UK!

Edited By Jesus Cardin on 12/09/2020 21:47:04

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Nigel R on 12/09/2020 21:28:02:

ED the bearings were old irvine 40 mains, the odd mixed metric / imperial size. The only place I knew of that sells them is boca.

Last time I bought a pair of bearings from them I escaped any charges so it didn't really register that I might get hit when I did this order!

When I spoke to Irvine about their odd bearings 20 years or so ago, they said that they recommended making conversion sleeves to convert easily obtained sizes.

[Nigel R]

ha!

Who could make such a thing?

On this one it would need to make up the difference between 28mm and 28.575mm dia, to use a regular 6902.