Andy Symons - BMFA Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Posted by Steve J on 30/09/2020 06:35:30: Posted by Gary Manuel on 29/09/2020 18:07:46: Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 28/09/2020 20:45:04: A number of clubs were successful in getting the Sport England grants. Also any clubs that are registered for small business rates, even if getting full rate relief automatically received the £10k. BMFA advising on the eligibility for a very useful grant at a time when membership numbers are down due to Covid. Another useful service provided by the BMFA, though I'm not sure that everyone is listening Andy. I can confirm that if your club is registered for business rates, you are entitled to a £10k grant. Our club gets 100% business rates rebate thus effectively paying no rates but we still got it, though not automatically. I your club did not suffer a loss due to covid, then I am of the opinion that claiming this grant is, at best, unethical. Thankfully it's the Governments opinion that matters and their opinion was that any sports club registered for SBR was eligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Morris 2 Posted September 30, 2020 Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 Slightly off subject. But for once i would say thank goodness for grants. A friend has just received 2 x 50K grants that has temporally saved his business. He was able to put all of his borrowings into " what is" an interest free lone for "i believe" 6 months. He also received them both with in 10 days. Oh! He had 3 limited company's & applied for grants on 2. Take it wile its there. Edited By Christopher Morris 2 on 30/09/2020 08:07:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 +1 for Steve J comment. After all, it is taxpayers money.... GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Ethics ? Don't make me laugh, have yous been watching the news ? Best I've got is, for once we've been invited to feed at the trough, you have a chance to protect your clubs and members futures, choice is yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Posted by Steve J on 30/09/2020 06:35:30: Posted by Gary Manuel on 29/09/2020 18:07:46: Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 28/09/2020 20:45:04: A number of clubs were successful in getting the Sport England grants. Also any clubs that are registered for small business rates, even if getting full rate relief automatically received the £10k. BMFA advising on the eligibility for a very useful grant at a time when membership numbers are down due to Covid. Another useful service provided by the BMFA, though I'm not sure that everyone is listening Andy. I can confirm that if your club is registered for business rates, you are entitled to a £10k grant. Our club gets 100% business rates rebate thus effectively paying no rates but we still got it, though not automatically. I your club did not suffer a loss due to covid, then I am of the opinion that claiming this grant is, at best, unethical. Our club DID suffer a loss. Membership numbers are down on previous years due to Covid and are are likely to remain so. We still need to pay the rent on the field and for the grass to be cut and other costs. This grant will ensure that we can continue to operate into the future. This is exactly what the fund is intented for - to protect the future of sport and leisure facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Posted by Martin Harris on 29/09/2020 21:25:20: Nobody gave us any grants - although I understand that the local council offered us the use of the town centre shopping arcade's top storey car park on Sundays (this was before Sunday trading of course) while the club was "between" rented sites... That sounds, on the face of it, a very dodgy (and interesting, in the Chinese sense) place to fly! Landing out could have been an experience We're in a strange situation. We're losing our wonderful WW2 airfiled site to a massive housing estate in the next very few years and have elected to bite the bullet and move to a different site altogether a few miles away. So for a couple of years we'll have 2 sites. One advantage of the new site, which is at a farm which was once part of a big estate (in old way) so we'll have access to mains electricity and a proper, modern toilet block (getting more important as I age ). Plus it's lower and more sheltered so not so breezy. There's a lot of work in preparation though. No grants, either. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 If you're registered to get the BMFA updates by email you might have seen the notes to clubs that came out yesterday re the AGM. An operating surplus of a little over £50K is mentioned, so at least we're in the black by a small amount and that subs will remain as is for next year - good so far. Not so encouraging is the fall in numbers by 1324 to 30578 - not sustainable over the next few years, I'd have thought. The case of the 'missing members' is interesting, by that I mean the CAA has 185000 registrations yet only a fraction of those people can be BMFA members. Are very many of the other 150000 or so really a viable target for membership, and I wonder what proportion of those 'going alone' are uninsured, albeit registered with their nine quids? Depending on your view of such things, one can spin all this either pot half full or pot half empty - but at least we do have a pot at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Kremen Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 C8 do you have a link please? Tried searching the BMFA site and all I get is AGM motor info !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Posted by Capt Kremen on 16/11/2020 10:24:14: C8 do you have a link please? Tried searching the BMFA site and all I get is AGM motor info !!!! If you scroll down the AGM motor adverts you will eventuall come to the 2020 AGM link. The latest news from the AGM is here. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Posted by Steve J on 16/11/2020 11:34:32: Posted by Dickw on 16/11/2020 10:42:57: The latest news from the AGM is here. That is just the fees. Anybody know if anything interesting was said that isn't in the documents published before the AGM? I don't recall anything in particular, but it was only a very short (1 hour) formal meeting. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Posted by Dickw on 16/11/2020 10:42:57: Posted by Capt Kremen on 16/11/2020 10:24:14: C8 do you have a link please? Tried searching the BMFA site and all I get is AGM motor info !!!! If you scroll down the AGM motor adverts you will eventuall come to the 2020 AGM link. The latest news from the AGM is here. Dick The article PDF is on the East Anglia region website, I imagine all BMFA regions will be carrying it. **LINK** The closest that many of us get to accountancy, is running the family finances and simplistic as it might be compared to running a business or organisation like BMFA one has to cut one's cloth etc whether that's on weekly shopping bills or larger projects in a business. Edited By Cuban8 on 16/11/2020 12:24:24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Long 1 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Here's a thought (as a member of the BMFA), I wonder why a person or persons feels it is their 'right' to publish extracts of documents and to copy and publish other text from an organisation to persons who are not paid up members of that organisation, unless of course they KNOW that everyone on this forum is without exception a paid up member of the BMFA or that person has asked for and obtained permission from the BMFA to do so? Hence the requirement for a password to access those documents? By the way it also infringes this forums Terms of Use - Copying material between this and other sites. Always use a link if referring to modelflying.co.uk from other websites. Do not copy material from other sites to Modelflying unless you own the copyright. Edited By Christopher Long 1 on 16/11/2020 14:23:46 Edited By Christopher Long 1 on 16/11/2020 14:24:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Posted by MattyB on 16/11/2020 12:17:32: Posted by Cuban8 on 16/11/2020 12:09:42: The article PDF is on the East Anglia region website, I imagine all BMFA regions will be carrying it. **LINK** Key extracts... EDIT - I have just noticed that the membership numbers above do not match the ones in the budget report; not sure why that is... "..................................................... Edited By MattyB on 16/11/2020 12:28:16 I don't actually know the answer, but possibly something to do with the accounts being for a March > April financial year, but the membership figures from the AGM are usuall the latest current data. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Posted by Christopher Long 1 on 16/11/2020 14:20:53: Here's a thought (as a member of the BMFA), I wonder why a person or persons feels it is their 'right' to publish extracts of documents and to copy and publish other text from an organisation to persons who are not paid up members of that organisation, unless of course they KNOW that everyone on this forum is without exception a paid up member of the BMFA or that person has asked for and obtained permission from the BMFA to do so? Hence the requirement for a password to access those documents? By the way it also infringes this forums Terms of Use - Copying material between this and other sites. Always use a link if referring to modelflying.co.uk from other websites. Do not copy material from other sites to Modelflying unless you own the copyright. I did that because many people do not click on links when they are posted, and it was easier to post my views with the figures right there for direct context, Besides, neither the website nor the documents I extracted from are marked privileged or confidential, nor do they have copyright markings; I am not sure you can copyright a budget! Historically the AGM minutes, agendas and supporting materials have been published open access on the BMFA site in previous years; this seems to be a change for 2020. If there was a clear reason for the information to be kept confidential I would not have posted it, but unless I am missing something I can't see any such reason, especially as the AGM is now over. Anyway, should the mods feel it is a problem they can always moderate my posts, as is their right. Edited By MattyB on 16/11/2020 15:57:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Long 1 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 It would seem that people have a poor understanding of copyright law. Copyright refers to the legal right of the owner of intellectual property (in this instance the BMFA is the owner). In simpler terms, copyright is the right to copy. This means that the original creators of the item or work and anyone they give authorization to are the only ones with the exclusive right to reproduce the work. If you did not create it, the work is not yours to use freely, even if there is no copyright symbol. Copyright does not need to be applied for, it applies automatically. The fact that the BMFA required you as a member to get a password to access the documents - including the budget document (the document copyright belongs to the BMFA) would seem to be an obvious indicator that it was for the eyes of BMFA members only. That would also indicate that it could not be used under the copyright 'fair use' reason. If people do not wish to click on a link then that is their problem, but is not a reason to ignore the forum's code of conduct. Just because someone does not see a clear reason for something does not excuse them from following the code of conduct or copyright law. Edited By Christopher Long 1 on 16/11/2020 16:37:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 I believe Matty has acted with the best of intentions here. I cannot speak for the BMFA, of course, but I don't see anything here that would be considered contentious or breaching copyright. Indeed, I would hope that anything that disburses information from the BMFA would be welcomed by them. I'm sure that Andy Symons will raise the matter with us if he considers it an issue Pete ps That link is to an open web page and not password-protected - I did not need to log in to download it..... Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 16/11/2020 17:00:59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 I still don't believe that a statement of accounts or budget is copyrightable, especially if the association is required to produce and publish it publically - it is certainly debatable based on the gov.uk website. Based on your post I do accept the meeting minutes from the BMFA East Anglia site were an "original literary work" though, so the mods are welcome to take that down if they wish. Consider my wrists firmly slapped... PS - I did try and consult the BMFA Articles of Association to see if they are required to publish public accounts (I am fairly certain they are), but I was unable to do so because the link from their "About us" page gives a 404 error! You couldn't make it up... Edited By MattyB on 16/11/2020 17:19:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Dilly 1 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Posted by MattyB on 16/11/2020 17:17:58:the link from their "About us" page gives a 404 error! You couldn't make it up... Edited By MattyB on 16/11/2020 17:19:21 You did actually. The About Us link works fine for me. Anyone else got poor Matty'as problem? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 I don't believe Matty was making anything up. This is the link he was referring to from the About Us page: (see the Articles of Association) 404 - File or directory not found. The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. Edited By Martin Harris on 16/11/2020 18:56:49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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