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Chuck Yeager


Cuban8
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Sad to hear that General Chuck Yeager died yesterday at the age of 97. As kids we read of his exploits in comics during the 60s when war heroes were still considered to be positive roll models.

I've read a few books about him, of which 'Yeager' is probably the best and find myself in a quandary as to whether I like his character, whilst not taking one iota of respect away from him as a pilot both in wartime and later on as a test pilot.

Anyway, whatever one makes of him, a sad time for his bereaved family and a loss to aviation of one of its greatest and colourful icons.

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One of those larger than life characters who found fame for being the first pilot to officially go supersonic. The chap who was due to do the test wanted more money but those above said no and Chuck got the job.

It is said he fell off his horse a day or two before the test and broke a bone in his arm but kept it quiet so he could do the flight.

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I agree with Cuban 8.

a school boy hero ! But the more I read about his attitude to "The Brits" and the RAF and the "fact" that the Bell X used British tech to beat us to the Sound Barrier !(Miles ??)

All stuff I have read ?? May not be true but the loss of a school boy hero is sad !!

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The Miles M52 was cancelled when it was 90% complete by the then Labour government in 1946. Giving the American Bell team a guided tour around Miles's top secret factory and details of the revolutionary all flying tailplane beggars belief. No surprise the favour wasn't reciprocated!

Test pilots were a different breed in those early years of high speed flight, so many perished at the controls of their aircraft. Chuck Yeager beat all the odds by making it to 97. RIP.

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I flicked through his biography again this morning, and from the few passages that I read, he does come over in many ways as an enigma. I wonder if his lack of an earlier higher education and his humble beginnings affected his attitude to later 'engineer test pilots'. He appeared to be somewhat dismissive of the space programme and its all-graduate intake, considering the astronauts more as passengers rather than pilots. Something it should be noted that the first US astronauts were concerned about also, and lobbying for more manual control of their spacecraft as well as automation.

I read somewhere that it was often the case in the old days that a poorly performing prototype aircraft was often sorted out 'behind the hangars', sometimes with the designer finishing up with a black eye and sometimes the pilot! I'm not saying that Yeager was a wildman, but I think he fitted into the style of the old guys more so than how test flying and test pilots became in the fifties and sixties.

A good opportunity to put 'The Right Stuff' on the DVD this afternoon............bon voyage Chuck!

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Wasn't he the person who started the saying " The Right Stuff" ?

Isn't it a shame we get articles and programmes about notable people only when they die! Much nicer to have the programmes when they are still alive. Properly scheduled on TV so we can look out for them rather than finding out too late. Stil Chuck Yeager did get some programmes made about his work whilst he was around. Lets look out for repeats now.

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Chuck Yeager was quiet active on twitter, I recognised some years ago after reading his biography. I can also recommend the books from Jackie Cochrane and Pancho Barnes. Gives a different view on some of Chucks stories. I wouldn’t be the same opinion on all topics he mentions, but he sure was a great stick and rudder pilot, had a strong mind and surely was at the right place at the perfect time when jet flying accelerated. Exciting and funny way of telling stories, too.

Blue skies, Chuck

Timo

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Posted by Doc Marten on 08/12/2020 16:51:34:
Posted by Piers Bowlan on 08/12/2020 11:51:38:

The Miles M52 was cancelled when it was 90% complete by the then Labour government in 1946. Giving the American Bell team a guided tour around Miles's top secret factory and details of the revolutionary all flying tailplane beggars belief. No surprise the favour wasn't reciprocated!

Test pilots were a different breed in those early years of high speed flight, so many perished at the controls of their aircraft. Chuck Yeager beat all the odds by making it to 97. RIP.

The way I heard it was the deal was that if we shared our research with them they would share theirs with us, unfortunately we were ahead of the game so they had nothing of any benefit that we could use, the tailplane was their missing jigsaw piece and with their budget, government backing and will to make it happen they forged ahead.

I have Captain Eric Brown's book about the sad saga of the M52 (signed copy no less). In it he tells how that in 1944 the Ministry of Aircraft Supply invited a delegation from the USAAF, NACA and Bell Aircraft for a visit to the Miles factory and Miles were told to give the visitors all the information on the M52 and answer their questions. The M52 was Top Secret at the time and, until two years after it was cancelled, in 1946. 'It was hoped a reciprocal visit to the USA by the Miles design team and a similar full exchange of information on American supersonic flight knowledge would take place.' There was 'no deal' as such. It subsequently transpired that the Pentagon scuppered any chance of a return visit on 'security grounds'.

Had they not made that fateful visit and also there not been personal animosity between Whittle and his Powerjets company with the 'ministry men', history might have turned out differently.

It is clear that Eric (Winkle) Brown and Chuck Yeager were very different personalities but both lived to a ripe old age.

 

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 09/12/2020 08:47:30

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One sad thing was that great pilot and character that he was, Chuck didn’t like us Brits and said so. He refused to recognise that the Merlin was Rolls Royce in origin and would only refer to it as a Packard product. Interesting that his WW2 successes were in the plane that was made outstanding by this British originated engine and later his extensive service in Vietnam was undertaken in the Martin B57 powered by Wright J65 engines, the plane being a licence built Canberra and the engines licence built Armstrong Siddeley Sapphires!
How sad that the decision to scrap the M52 prevented Winkle Brown from being most likely to have beaten Yeager to it. Also the gift of the all-flying tailplane from the M52 was not acknowledged, even though previously the X1 had been unmanageable at transonic speeds and was incapable of exceeding Mach 1 with the conventional tailplane and elevator. Great man, sad loss, certainly a great self-publicist as well. I prefer the understated and greater Winkle, wish I’d had the chance to meet him. Not bothered that I didn’t meet Yeager, not that it would have bothered him either!

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It is thought today that Chuck Yeager was not the first to go supersonic. At the same time North American were testing the XP 86 prototype Saber A few days before Yeager's flight NA test pilot George Welch put the XP 86 in a dive and saw the speed indicator jump and felt changes in the aircraft, a phenomenon later known as the "mach jump " Those on the ground reported hearing a boom. But as it was not officially measured it was not recognised. Later the XP 86 was officially measured and found to be capable of supersonic flight.

All this was kept quite for many years, the powers above it is thought wanted the first supersonic pilot to be a military person. [ George Welch was a civilian test pilot at this time ] They also needed to justify the millions spent on the X1.

George Welch's name may not be well known but through the the movie world his exploits are. In the various " Pearl Harbour " films [ Tora Tora Tora is the best ] It is George and his wing man Ken Tailor who get their P40's of the ground and take on the attackers, they do this not once but three times [ against the orders of a senior officer] bringing down 7 Japanese aircraft between them even though they only had ammo for 30cal guns on their P40's [ there was no 50cal ammo at their field for the wing guns] Ken Tailor flew the later actions even though he had a bullet go through his arm.

George Welch flew over 300 missions and finished his tour with 16 confirmed kill's

As North American test pilot he continued testing the F100 and became the first to pilot a jet in supersonic level flight in the Super Saber

In 1954 that other requirement for a test pilot of that era,[ a large chunk of good luck] ran out for George when the F100 A he was demonstrating tumbled out of control due to a problem with the vertical fin.

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we(GB)have a habit of shooting our self in the foot?....TSR 2,which I read had it gone into service, would still be flying today. The Russians buying RR jet engines and making copies to put in their migs which were in turn used in the Korean war. Lending Germany a couple of early merlin engines to evaluate before the start of WW2......which came back totally worn out...and probably a lot more...

ken anderson...ne..1..in the foot dept.

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Some anecdotal reference about Late Chuck Yeager during the 1971 India Pakistan War.
Chuck Yeager was in Pakistan during the1971 war as part of US Mil observers to ensure distribution of US Mil Aid. He had a twin engine beechcraft and a C130 at his disposal.
The IAF on an attack chanced upon an empty airfield with these two aircrafts in a corner.
A Hunter flown by Lt Arun Prakash (later Admiral Prakash) then on deputation to the IAF blew these two aircraft up at Chaklala Airfield.
An enraged CY, as reports go, moved to Peshwar and it is rumoured that he not only worked on coordinating PAF offensive against India but also flew sorties against India.

There you go, a British piece of equipment was used to dent his......

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Posted by ken anderson. on 10/12/2020 13:35:05:

we(GB)have a habit of shooting our self in the foot?....TSR 2,which I read had it gone into service, would still be flying today. The Russians buying RR jet engines and making copies to put in their migs which were in turn used in the Korean war. Lending Germany a couple of early merlin engines to evaluate before the start of WW2......which came back totally worn out...and probably a lot more...

ken anderson...ne..1..in the foot dept.

Perhaps that's why UK has the 5th highest GDP but only the 21st highest population.

Think before spend dept,

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Posted by ken anderson. on 10/12/2020 13:35:05:

we(GB)have a habit of shooting our self in the foot?....TSR 2,which I read had it gone into service, would still be flying today. The Russians buying RR jet engines and making copies to put in their migs which were in turn used in the Korean war. Lending Germany a couple of early merlin engines to evaluate before the start of WW2......which came back totally worn out...and probably a lot more...

ken anderson...ne..1..in the foot dept.

Actually the first Stukas were powered by R.R.Kestrel engines as was the first ME 109. I remember the Russians did not have the metal for the jet engines and when n a tour of Rolls Royce They wore soft rubber sole boots and were able to pick up metal cuttings which they took back to Russia to be analysed .

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What it was with Yeager with brit's who knows ? The P51 he loved was designed to meet a British / RAF order and later versions [ the ones he flew were Rolls Royce powered. He would only ever call the engine a Packard , a licence built Merlin.

He later flew missions in Vietnam in a Martin B57, a licence built Canberra with Licence built British engines.frownquestion

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Posted by Manish Chandrayan on 10/12/2020 16:01:47:

Some anecdotal reference about Late Chuck Yeager during the 1971 India Pakistan War.
Chuck Yeager was in Pakistan during the1971 war as part of US Mil observers to ensure distribution of US Mil Aid. He had a twin engine beechcraft and a C130 at his disposal.
The IAF on an attack chanced upon an empty airfield with these two aircrafts in a corner.
A Hunter flown by Lt Arun Prakash (later Admiral Prakash) then on deputation to the IAF blew these two aircraft up at Chaklala Airfield.
An enraged CY, as reports go, moved to Peshwar and it is rumoured that he not only worked on coordinating PAF offensive against India but also flew sorties against India.

There you go, a British piece of equipment was used to dent his......

I was talking to a model flying ex-Pakistan Air Force pilot who was living in Germany when we visited our "linked" club over there and he told me how he'd shot down two Hunters during that conflict. Feelings obviously ran deep as he said he regretted destroying two such beatiful aircraft but had no concern for their pilots.

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He was a prime example of the American way of life. Take the best from the rest of the world and claim it invented by the good old USA. It all started in the war of independence when France financed their arms and ships on the understanding it was a loan. They never paid it back and so I guess with interest they must owe France a fortune. Then of course don't forget they won the first world war. And the money they lent England to fight the second which took many tears to pay back. They invented the computer not the British of course and we cancelled Bloodhound, TSR2 and who knows what else on the understanding that we would be supported by their products.

A special relationship???. I think not

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Next time that you're up at Duxford, walk along to the American Air Museum and stop and take a long hard look at the glass memorial panels covered in hundreds and hundreds of US aircraft and think of the thousands of US lads who gave their lives as our allies. It puts a lump in my throat every time I spend a few minutes walking along looking at the engraved images of B17s, B24s, P51s, P38s etc etc. No country is perfect, but those young men (Yeager included) gave up their 'American way' to put themselves in harm's way over Europe and paid the price. Worth a thought before tarring a whole nation and its history with the same brush.

A very small section of the memorial here, it actually continues way down the the hill for 30 metres or so, I'd guess.

**LINK**

Edited By Cuban8 on 11/12/2020 12:12:13

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Posted by Wilco Wingco on 11/12/2020 10:01:31:

He was a prime example of the American way of life. Take the best from the rest of the world and claim it invented by the good old USA. It all started in the war of independence when France financed their arms and ships on the understanding it was a loan. They never paid it back and so I guess with interest they must owe France a fortune. Then of course don't forget they won the first world war. And the money they lent England to fight the second which took many tears to pay back. They invented the computer not the British of course and we cancelled Bloodhound, TSR2 and who knows what else on the understanding that we would be supported by their products.

A special relationship???. I think not

Within your post you're replicating, albeit on a smaller scale, exactly the same attitude that you complain the Americans have.

"And the money they lent England to fight the second which took many tears to pay back."

Which is part of the reason many in Scotland want independence.

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