Chuck Yeager

[Manish Chandrayan]

Government, any Government in any country don't go hand in hand with moral and ethics

[J D 8]

Posted by Wilco Wingco on 11/12/2020 10:01:31:

He was a prime example of the American way of life. Take the best from the rest of the world and claim it invented by the good old USA. It all started in the war of independence when France financed their arms and ships on the understanding it was a loan. They never paid it back and so I guess with interest they must owe France a fortune. Then of course don't forget they won the first world war. And the money they lent England to fight the second which took many tears to pay back. They invented the computer not the British of course and we cancelled Bloodhound, TSR2 and who knows what else on the understanding that we would be supported by their products.

A special relationship???. I think not

In the movie " The man who never was " [ Based on the real operation Mincemeat ]

There is a moving scene where a grieving farther after just having viewed the body of his dead son that is soon to be used in a deception against the Axis about the position of an upcoming landing is told by the officer,

" His son would be doing ENGLAND a great service."

Father replies " That's the trouble with you English, you always say ENGLAND when you mean BRITAIN."

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

As the husband of a Scottish lass, I'm acutely aware of the difference in attitudes. I'm not condoning the lack of awareness but I think it stems from a general feeling in England that we're all one country with regional differences whereas the Scots and other nations within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are far more nationalistic in this respect.

I'm also rather sad that this pandemic is highlighting the divisions by emphasising what seems to be competition between the devolved governments to put their own stamp on restrictions rather than work together with a common aim.

Manish, sorry if this is taking the thread further from its subject but as Chuck's attitude to the destruction of his aircraft triggering such a lethal response illustrates, the consequences of disagreement between nations is a pretty important subject.

Edited By Martin Harris on 11/12/2020 15:03:21

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

England has various regions under differing rules, I see no reason why devolved governments shouldn't deal with the interests of it's own people.

Chuck Yeager ? Our heroes have traits we sometimes don't like, it's pretty common when we delve into their lives, one mans Snowflake is another mans Gammon.

[PatMc]

Posted by Martin Harris on 11/12/2020 14:50:21:

As the husband of a Scottish lass, I'm acutely aware of the difference in attitudes. I'm not condoning the lack of awareness but I think it stems from a general feeling in England that we're all one country with regional differences whereas the Scots and other nations within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are far more nationalistic in this respect.

 

Do you mean the general feeling in England is "we're all one country & that country is England" ?
If so I'd say that was an arrogant attitude.

It is in essence virtually the same as the attitude of superiority that's found offence when coming from Americans.

I can't speak for people from Northern Ireland or Wales but as a Scot I would either refer to UK/GB or the specific nation by name

Edited By PatMc on 11/12/2020 17:15:40

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by PatMc on 11/12/2020 17:06:58:

Posted by Martin Harris on 11/12/2020 14:50:21:

As the husband of a Scottish lass, I'm acutely aware of the difference in attitudes. I'm not condoning the lack of awareness but I think it stems from a general feeling in England that we're all one country with regional differences whereas the Scots and other nations within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are far more nationalistic in this respect.

 

Do you mean the general feeling in England is "we're all one country & that country is England" ?
If so I'd say that was an arrogant attitude.

It is in essence virtually the same as the attitude of superiority that's found offence when coming from Americans.

I can't speak for people from Northern Ireland or Wales but as a Scot I would either refer to UK/GB or the specific nation by name

Edited By PatMc on 11/12/2020 17:15:40

Not at all Pat and if you re-read what I wrote you'll see that I certainly didn't say anything of the sort.

I was at pains to state that the separate nations were more conscious of their national identities than the English, who I believe see themselves as a part on the UK more so than some others. I won't argue that this contributes to the common error in describing the UK as England but I believe that it's mainly unawareness rather than any arrogance.

As an Englishman, I don't regard people in any other parts of the UK - whether Cornwall, Cheshire, Clwyd, County Down or Clackmannanshire as anything other than fellow countrymen although I appreciate their right to celebrate their local identity. I know that many outside England (and some within) see their countries or counties as separate entities but I think some people may mistake ignorance (in the non-derogatory sense) for arrogance.

Edited By Martin Harris on 11/12/2020 18:58:33

[Manish Chandrayan]

Completely agree with you Martin. So clearly illustrated by the narration of the Pakistani pilot. He had no feelings or remorse for the pilots, just because they were from other nation.

[Wilco Wingco]

The body in operation Mincemeat was vagrant who died from eating rat poison. He was a Welsh man who's father committed suicide when he was 15. I suppose there has to be some poetic licence in films or the "father" who made the comment was a ghost?.

[J D 8]

As noted in my post it was just a film scene . Ghost or otherwise what he says is true.

The first body was not used in operation mincemeat as it was likely the enemy would have discovered it was a ruse. The body of a sailor who had actually drowned when escort carrier HMS Dasher exploded off the Scottish coast was substituted at the last moment. There is much conjecture about operation mincemeat to this day. However the present HMS Dasher has been known to commemorate sailor John Melville as the man who was.