Designing

[Zflyer]

I am using Tinkercad, which is free! and Cura to produce the printing files.

I am still getting my head around Tinker cad. I designed a canopy which I duly printed solid, then the penny dropped on how to hollow it, so just walled.

Printing as we speak.

I was wondering if there is a way of using a pen and tablet which I think may give better control. Anyone had success with that or is the mouse still best option ?

[Brian Cooper]

You lost me at "Tinkercard".

I still use a large sheet of paper and a pen or pencil.

[Mark J]

I take it your using the scribble tool in tinkercad, I surpose you could use any input device to control the cursor. Tinkercad is ok, and useful for more "organic" designs. To design more engineering type objects I use Fusion 360, also free. It's a bit complex and at times does my head in, but theres plenty of help on you tube.

[Peter Miller]

I always use a large sheet of paper. The reason is that at full size a slight change of curve or angle can transform a model from and ugly duckling to a swan. You can also be sure that you equitpment such as betteries etc will fit.

[Zflyer]

Haven't used the scribble option, i think it would be a little bit difficult with a mouse. I suppose I should have searched the net first, but i know that the intrepid users of this forum hold the answer to many things.

[Roger Jones 3]

Posted by Peter Miller on 02/02/2021 18:32:23:

I always use a large sheet of paper. The reason is that at full size a slight change of curve or angle can transform a model from and ugly duckling to a swan. You can also be sure that you equitpment such as betteries etc will fit.

Among other 'computer' stuff I worked on computer aided design (and also manufacturing) for many years. In fact I was one of the developers of the very first one - a combined IBM and Dassault effort.

With a little drafting ability, pencil and paper, compasses, etc, you can do it MUCH quicker by hand for a simple thing such as a model plane.

[Peter Miller]

Posted by Roger Jones 3 on 03/02/2021 07:37:02:

Posted by Peter Miller on 02/02/2021 18:32:23:

I always use a large sheet of paper. The reason is that at full size a slight change of curve or angle can transform a model from and ugly duckling to a swan. You can also be sure that you equitpment such as betteries etc will fit.

Among other 'computer' stuff I worked on computer aided design (and also manufacturing) for many years. In fact I was one of the developers of the very first one - a combined IBM and Dassault effort.

With a little drafting ability, pencil and paper, compasses, etc, you can do it MUCH quicker by hand for a simple thing such as a model plane.

How true. I also use some good French curves

[Mark J]

Posted by Peter Miller on 03/02/2021 07:51:14:

Posted by Roger Jones 3 on 03/02/2021 07:37:02:

Posted by Peter Miller on 02/02/2021 18:32:23:

I always use a large sheet of paper. The reason is that at full size a slight change of curve or angle can transform a model from and ugly duckling to a swan. You can also be sure that you equitpment such as betteries etc will fit.

Among other 'computer' stuff I worked on computer aided design (and also manufacturing) for many years. In fact I was one of the developers of the very first one - a combined IBM and Dassault effort.

With a little drafting ability, pencil and paper, compasses, etc, you can do it MUCH quicker by hand for a simple thing such as a model plane.

How true. I also use some good French curves

Yes I agree designing a model plane is easier with pen and paper. But if you want 3d print something then CAD is the only way to go.

[John Stainforth]

Perhaps too much is made of the differences between pen and paper and CAD: they are just tools. What I have observed is that people who are good at drawing (with pencil and paper) take to CAD very quickly and effectively, whereas people who are bad at drawing make lousy CAD'ers. Once one has become proficient at CAD it is faster than drafting by hand and much easier to achieve accuracy because everything can be tied to precise reference points and datum lines. A simple model aircraft can be designed and drawn very quickly with CAD. Operations like lofting are way easier with CAD. Then there are all the special CAD operations, such as booleans for adding and subtracting objects from each other. In CAD, one works not only in 2D views, but also in 3D perspective views, and the more proficient one becomes, the more one works in the 3D views. Then there are all the other fantastic benefits of being able to print out precise plans of any part of the plane very quickly, downloading files directly for laser cutting and making 3D printed parts.

Personally, I think it is no contest. CAD wins almost every time!

Edited By John Stainforth on 03/02/2021 17:53:49

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Zflyer on 27/01/2021 11:55:45:

I am using Tinkercad, which is free! and Cura to produce the printing files.

I am still getting my head around Tinker cad. I designed a canopy which I duly printed solid, then the penny dropped on how to hollow it, so just walled.

I wonder if you've found a different way when you state "walled" - is there a tool I've missed?

I would have copied and scaled the object down by the required wall thickness and then made it a "hole" to group with the original.

[Roger Jones 3]

Posted by John Stainforth on 03/02/2021 17:52:47:

Perhaps too much is made of the differences between pen and paper and CAD: they are just tools. What I have observed is that people who are good at drawing (with pencil and paper) take to CAD very quickly and effectively, whereas people who are bad at drawing make lousy CAD'ers. Once one has become proficient at CAD it is faster than drafting by hand and much easier to achieve accuracy because everything can be tied to precise reference points and datum lines. A simple model aircraft can be designed and drawn very quickly with CAD. Operations like lofting are way easier with CAD. Then there are all the special CAD operations, such as booleans for adding and subtracting objects from each other. In CAD, one works not only in 2D views, but also in 3D perspective views, and the more proficient one becomes, the more one works in the 3D views. Then there are all the other fantastic benefits of being able to print out precise plans of any part of the plane very quickly, downloading files directly for laser cutting and making 3D printed parts.

Personally, I think it is no contest. CAD wins almost every time!

Edited By John Stainforth on 03/02/2021 17:53:49

I have noticed on a couple of other forums that we see many 'wonderful' potential designs, often scale, that the designer get so wrapped up with the 'amazing' things he can do with CAD that he totally loses sight of the objective and the plane never get built.

And I was one of the developers of the very first CAD system (IBM/Dassault), current versions of which are the 'world standard' in almost every major engineering corporation, cars, aircraft, space, ships, atomic reactors, etc.

So I am not against it, I just don't think the time is worth it on simple stuff like a model plane you are only going to build one of, just for yourself.

Pleased users can get over-enthusiastic about their favoured tool.  Just like Apple fanboys who rave about the complicated and expensive  iPhone but never say  or text anything worthwhile on it.

The model plane gets to be just an excuse to use the CAD stuff. After all, it's not much use for anything else  around the house, like a pencil  can be.  CAD  can't clean, mow the lawn,  or post  on a forum, can it?

And it's exactly the same with laser cutters or 3D printers.  You don't need any of that stuff to  make  a couple of good model planes a year. The blokenext door is a garden  power  tool nut.  He's got everything. Even a powered wheelbarrow. He rarely does any actual gardening, just plays with his  tools.

Edited By Roger Jones 3 on 04/02/2021 00:12:37

[Zflyer]

I have used to make power pod for depron planes. Servo holders for.mini servos and some assorted objects for my grandchildren. If purchased solely to make a plane it would never have been bought.

Re the walled comment as i said new to this but yes make the object then duplicate reduce size change to hole and fit into object. I appreciate some readers of this wont have a clue what i have said. But then i dont understand some of the stuff i read on here. Each of us have different interests skills and disciplines. But we all love the hobby.

My original query was can you use a digital pen instead of a mouse.

I get not everyones cup of tea and i am not the most proficent builder but if this helps then its worth it for me.

[Roger Jones 3]

Posted by Zflyer on 04/02/2021 01:35:24:

I have used to make power pod for depron planes. Servo holders for.mini servos and some assorted objects for my grandchildren. If purchased solely to make a plane it would never have been bought.

Re the walled comment as i said new to this but yes make the object then duplicate reduce size change to hole and fit into object. I appreciate some readers of this wont have a clue what i have said. But then i dont understand some of the stuff i read on here. Each of us have different interests skills and disciplines. But we all love the hobby.

My original query was can you use a digital pen instead of a mouse.

I get not everyones cup of tea and i am not the most proficent builder but if this helps then its worth it for me.

OK. Actually I notice that not even a SINGLE person has made any attempt whatsoever to answer your question, and that includes me,

I know nothing of Tinkercad but I CAN answer part of your question, so here goes.

A pen and tablet will ALWAYS be better for making marks on a screen than a mouse. (Whether one will work with Tinkercad I don't know, but it should).

Always? Try writing your name with a pen on a piece of paper. It's fine, you have been doing it since you were a child.

Now try to write your name on your computer screen with the mouse.  There are several ways of doing this with software that comes as a standard part of Windows, such as 'Paint'.

It will be shaky and all over the place. A complete mess. Probably unreadable if you tried to do it normal 'handwriting' size.

There's your answer to "Is a pen and tablet better than a mouse?" YES!!! (Make sure the pen actually draws a line on the tablet as well as the main screen as  'invisible' writing is quite hard to do.)

Edited By Roger Jones 3 on 04/02/2021 07:23:37

[Cuban8]

Real time, non-virtual CAD for me every time..........Cardboard Aided Design

[Sheepish]

Hi Zflyer

I think I’m on the same journey as you at the moment. I’ve been building models for years and my back ground is as a production engineer when drawing was on good old paper and film with pens and pencils and an A0 board. I have done some 2D and 3D drawing on AutoCAD and Solid works in the past but I was never proficient.

I recently bought a Creality printer in order to be able to print stuff like pilot busts, guns, wheels, brackets, hatches etc having seen some great stuff on this forum. I have been trying to teach myself Tinkercad too and I think there are some very clever youngsters out there because I find it a challenge despite having spent many years drawing stuff on paper.

I’m not sure the answer lies in a tablet pen but it might lie in different drawing software for canopies and the like. There is software which is used for more sculptural tasks like Meshmixer (Free!) and others too. It is, however, another skill to learn but why not?

Good luck with your learning and if you find a good answer for canopies then it will be interesting to see what it is.

[MAD Dave]

My tuppence worth….

I think Roger Jones 3 is slightly mistaken, Martin Harris answered the question at his 03/02 18:39 entry suggesting production of a reduced size object of the original, turning it into a "hole" and carefully merging it with the original to produce a shell. All easily done on Tinkercad though great care has to be taken with dimensions and positioning prior to merging. I discovered this process for myself during the initial lockdown and used it successfully for producing a…… hollow canopy!

Following on from that, I explored 123D Design (free to download but no longer supported I believe) and Fusion 360. I found these two could do pretty much whatever I wanted regarding 3D print design but the down-sides were complexity of use and being not particularly intuitive; unlike Tinkercad. There is a wealth of online tutorials and I spent the later lockdowns trawling slowly through the "how to's". Worked for me.

My current modus operandi is to do the fundamental design work using Fusion 360 (can be done using 123D Design as well), export the .stl files to my pc and then pick them up on Tinkercad to complete the job. That process may not appeal to the purists but it works for me! I find the Fusion 123 "lofting" and "shell" functions to be particularly helpful; the latter does away with the need to construct and merge the Tinkercad "hole".

My current lockdown project is the conversion of a hand launched pusher-prop design to (finger saving) EDF using Tony Nijhuis's favourite 50mm FMS EDF unit. Not completed yet but going well. A photo is included showing the 3D printed EDF assembly bolted to the rear of an appropriately truncated balsa fuselage. Max thrust measured so far is ~520g on 3S.

[leccyflyer]

As Guvnor says, whilst a stylus/pen and tablet definitely has utility in sketching and as an input device for computer graphics and CAD, you aren't typically "drawing" in the same mode with a mouse. The technique of drawing is different, using the tools available - to generate polygonal features, rather that attempting to" scribble" with the mouse, fixing key points and using the available tools is faster and more accurate. It takes a bit of getting used to but drawing with Bezier curves soon becomes quite intuitive with practice.

The skills of drawing on paper or film are not particular relevant in this context, since you need to come up with a suitable CAD output in order to be able to 3D print it - you can't do that with a piece of paper and a pencil. Though you can trace around a scanned picture to create a 3D "object" in CAD.

[MAD Dave]

Oooops: For "Fusion123" on my last offering, please read "Fusion 360". It's my age.......