Covering options

[GrumpyGnome]

Morning all

I recently bought a Seagull Master Series P-47 kit. I'm only early into the build but am already picking colour schemes and finishes....

I am looking for opinions on coverings. Painted flat film? Painted textured film? Glass and Poly-c? Glass and resin? Painted heavyweight tissue? I assume all will need fuel proofing - not decided if petrol or glow yet, but deffo not electric. Main ding-resistance is needed to avoid hangar rash in storage/transport - I am a competent flier.

All opinions and thoughts appreciated.

GG

[Eric Robson]

Hi G.G. I have not tried glass and resin but it is the best for ding resistance and what ever paint you use will require fuel proofing. I have used silver Solarfilm on warbirds and painted over after taking the shine off with 600 grit or higher. this method is not very ding proof. dope and tissue is good but be careful of using too much shrinking dope as it can distort the balsa I would avoid textured film for a P47 as it needs a lot of filling to get a smooth surface. I only use it on biplanes with fabric covered surface's . No doubt many others will have different methods so good luck with what ever one you choose. My last 3 models have been covered with brown paper and PVA but getting the right paper can be a problem if it has ribs in do not use it .

Eric.

[Alan Gorham_]

The Seagull kit seems to have an open structure wing so you would only be able to use epoxy/glass on the sheeted fuselage.

I would probably opt for glass on the fuz and heatshrink fabric such as natural Oratex or Diatex on the wings and tail and then paint.

Tissue is so easy to puncture when handling that I would not want to use it on such a model's open structure.

[Ron Gray]

Laminating film would be my first choice.

[Brian Spearing]

Petrol power shouldn't require the paint to be fuel-proofed - cars manage quite well. Depends on the paint used of course.

[GrumpyGnome]

Ah, good point re the open structure pieces - half the wings and all control surfaces!

Ron - is that just like using a thicker heat shrink film ? Available in larger than A4 sheets I assume?

GG

[Matt Carlton]

It's expensive, but what about Proskin from MR?

Somewhere towards the bottom of the rather confusing page...

Pro Skin

[Alan Gorham_]

I don't think the wing design in the kit lends itself to applying proskin. Effectively, you would have to design new rib profiles to account for the skin and that amount of effort rather negates the point of a quick-build semi-scale kit.

Hence why I suggested painted tex on the open structures. Quick and easy and perfectly strong and durable for this application.

[Engine Doctor]

The laminating film that Ron Gray suggest is very tough and puncture resistant . It can be bought in rolls approx the same width as normal covering film Although you may need to buy a 100 meter roll and share it with a mate ? . I bought a couple of rolls and have enough to last me out !You can also get it in a matt finish that takes paint very well. it comes in varying thicknesses, the 75 Micron is ideal for a larger model And the 30 micron for smaller models . Application is similar to normal iron on film but you need to get it as smooth as possible before shrinking and use much higher heat than modeling film as shrinkage is less than the modeling films ..

[GrumpyGnome]

Covering decided. 75 micron laminating film on wings, tailplane and all control surfaces, glass and Poly-C (or similar) on fuselage and fin.

Paying £14.80 for 75 metres by 33cm of that film - bargain. Paint dependent on petrol or glow, and scheme chosen

Cheers guys.

GG

[Engine Doctor]

Hi GrumpyGnome . Did you buy the clear or the matt finish . If the clear finish do let us know how you get on/rate it .

One thing I forgot to mention in earlier post was that any overlaps once ironed down really stick with no chance of coming unstuck like some covering films , certainly on the matt finish .

[GrumpyGnome]

Hi Engine Doctor

Will do.

GG

[Ron Gray]

Also note that 75 micron film requires more heat and can be a devil to stretch around curves, just take it slowly! It was because of this that I don’t use anything heavier than 38 micron!

if you have gone for the gloss finish don’t forget to flat the surface with fine sandpaper ‘ Scotch Brite so that you get a good key for the paint, I would even recommend doing the same to the matt finish too.

 

Edited By Ron Gray on 03/02/2021 09:55:23

[Engine Doctor]

Hi Ron . I tested the Matt finish film with paint. No prep re sanding or scotchbrite is needed. I tested with water based acrylic and humbrol . Paint stuck like the proverbial to a blanket and couldn't be removed with vigorous scraping .

I gave the surface a quick wipe with some thinners to remove any grease from handling before painting and applied a non coat .

Can't comment on the clear as only bought the Matt variety as wanted to simulate the finish of doped tissue which it does very well.

[Ron Gray]

That’s a good result ED! My next consignment will be the matt variety but may have to double up on stock as I’ve still got ¼ roll of the gloss!

[Graham Davies 3]

Ron, ED,

In the process of finishing a Cambrian Spitfire as a tester for laminating film. Looks like this is good timing for us all!

I used 43 micron matte film (bought from a lovely chap from ebay for £5 posted for 10m. Allows me to dip my toes without ending up having to laminate my entire house to get rid of the stuff!).

I gave it a very light sanding with 400grit, but I'm not sure it really needed it. I used a light coat of white emulsion before using emulsion match pots. The colours aren't that close, but it gives a reasonable impression. I just can't believe anyone would willingly paint their house these colours!

The paint sticks well, and emulsion is notoriously easy to dislodge. My masking tape is quite aggressive and took a bit of the duck egg off on the band at the rear, but otherwise it's not coming off.

I'm really pleased with the film and will be buying a reel of the wide (650mm, I think) matte film.

Graham

[Phil McCavity]

Just a note that when searching for this that there is a difference between laminating film and encapsulating film which varies in price.

Lam film is thinner, encapsulation is thicker and higher quality, both come in gloss, matt and ultra matt finish, it makes very little difference with the way we intend to use it, I just put it out there as additional info if this is to become a real alternative for covering.

[Bruce Collinson]

This stuff clearly has legs; am surprised no LMS appears to be stocking it, they could apparently buy 100m and flog us 5 or 10m at a suitable markup. (Will; you reading this?)

Will you chaps link to the known reliable suppliers of 38gm matt, as that seems to be the best all round compromise? preferably UK sourced, obviously!

BTC

[Ron Gray]

I got mine from The Binding Box, they supply a good range of gloss, matt and super matt.

Lots of other UK suppliers though.

[cymaz]

How about nylon and dope? Make friends with a small local car sprayer. He might do some 2k paint spraying for a bit of cash.

[GrumpyGnome]

I bought 75 micron as that was recommended by a few sites and youtube videos. Ho hum, if it's too thick I will use it on the areas with simple single curves and get some thinner stuff for the compound curves. Hopefully will be OK as I don't plan on using it for the fuselage. I will post an update when I get to that stage - I'll probably give it a go once I have built the tailplane and elevators I wanted maximum 'ding resistance'. An alternative would have been to sheet the open areas and then glass it all but, I now have the opportunity to learn laminating, and glassing!

I did consider nylon and EZdope but can't get nylon to the stage when it won't sag in the damp; I've not used cellulose dope for donkeys years, so don't recall if that sagged. But I would not be allowed that in the house and it's too cold outside anyway.......

GG

[Christopher Wolfe]

I use 38µ laminating film. Shrink and cover with tissue or silk, well damped, use an aerosol puffer filled with water and a couple of coats of 50% thinned nitrate dope. Tissue may be applied with random patterns as with a slight overlap it's just as good as a continuous covering.

The film airproofs the structure and the tissue/silk adds tensile strength.Much stiffer than uncovered film.

Works out lighter than tissue or silk alone and the dope does not run through silk and produce blobs. It dries quickly too.

Remember to poke vent holes in wing ribs as shrinking the film can result in a hot air balloon.

Check the film covered flying surfaces for warps and adjust with the hot air gun before doping on the covering as any warps are about to be locked in.

One other bonus that I have discovered is that the covering seems to last for years compared to straight tissue or silk alone.

skippy

[Ron Gray]

@GG - don’t worry too much about the 75 micron film, it just a little bit more effort to apply in some areas, it definitely won’t be a wasted investment!

[Chris Watkinson]

Hi, been reading this thread with lots of interest being new to the hobby and a little confused by all the covering options out there (plus the seemingly high cost of some).

I’m building a DB Sport & Scale Tiger Moth that will require covering and I’d like a system the allows me to airbrush the actual colour scheme with Acrylics.

The laminating film option sounds interesting but can you give me some tips on applying it?

For example, do you have to use some kind of glue on the edges etc?

From your other comments it looks like it will shrink with heat similar to Solarfilm / Oracover etc.

Any help / tips welcome

Cheers

Chris

 

[Ron Gray]

Lam film is applied in a similar way to film coverings in that it has a glue layer which is activated when heat is applied. In most cases you do not need to apply a glue to the edges of what you are covering. It is very strong / puncture resistant and does shrink when sufficient heat is applied, note that IMO it is best attacked with a covering iron at about 150 degrees (after edges are stuck down) which is a bit hotter than covering films require. If you use the gloss lam film then it will need the gloss cutting back with fine sandpaper before applying paint finish. It covers open structures really well.

However, you may want to look at other fabric finish covering films such as Oratex or Diacov to cover your Moth, they maybe more in keeping!