Danny Fenton Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Colin please don't think you have to keep up, it isn't about who finishes first, it is the journey that is important. You are in a fortunate position to have several builds to chose to pick ideas from. I spent hours pondering over the blessed cowling, yo uwill be able to see what we did and what you liked and choose your path accordingly. Personally I will make wooden wheels for mine, tyres are an issue as the Nimrod has treaded tyres which are a little more difficult to acquire/make than the smooth tyres on the Fury, but they wont be needed until the end so plenty of time to mull that one over. If you are going to use single U/C legs then you probably want to seriously beef up F3 and put triangle stock to spread the load into the side doublers. Anyway great to see you got some time on the build Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 Thanks Danny. I’m going to use the fibre glass cowl from Sarik, it only needs slight alteration to resemble the Hispano Suiza plane. Also as it will be a painted finish I’m not concerned about using litho plate etc. The leg fairings on the cantilever undercarriage are wide enough to get a second wire form in if I make an extra ply former and fix it into the fuselage. That way I can leave the existing wire u/c pivoting on the former and transfer the rest of the load onto the other one which will be rigidly fixed. The question then is whether or not to form a coil into the second legs to provide some springing there, or just leave the whole thing rigid which it is on the plan anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 Tailplane, elevators, fin and rudder completed except for sanding, which can wait until much later. I’ve got the first fuselage side pinned down now. I need to finalise the decision on the undercarriage because I have to design an extra ply former to take the second wire frame. It should be simple because all the comparative illustrations show that the wheel centre on the Dowty wheel undercarriage is in exactly the same place as in the original. Also the centre line of the front leg on the original appears to be attached to the fuselage at the same point too, which makes sense. The problem is that if I work from that point of reference, the correct scale width for the leg fairing positions its trailing edge well forward of the lower wing leading edge. All of the illustrations show that is where it should be, so it tends to confirm that Dennis has positioned the u/c a bit forward of the scale position and that there is perhaps some inaccuracy in most of the information we have. I need to make a decision. Next step is to browse all of the other build threads again to poach what I can on the fuselage build. I’ve printed off all Danny’s former shape changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 At last I feel that I’m moving forward. Both fuselage sides glued down tonight, one on top of the other. I will take them off the board tomorrow night and then we’ll be moving more quickly. (I hope)! Footnote: add the two missing riblets to the tailplane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 I have cut the fuselage formers, does there need to be so much ply? Done the usual dry fit.I have to finalise the undercarriage design before I can glue anything together. Onto that now. Also I want to have fixed centre sections and detachable wing bays, a bit like Martyn, so that needs some preparation. Can anyone guide me on the electric power train please? I would like to order that to get the build detail right. As a point of interest, here is the original proposal for the Fury monoplane, the beginning of the Hurricane but to my eye much prettier. Edited By Colin Leighfield on 13/11/2018 21:57:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Well done Colin, i replaced a few with balsa, including F1. you should have emails with the corrected former shapes, a new stbd side former and the new F6. Let me know if you didnt receive them.I have gone with a aerodrive 5065 on 5S i hesitate on the kv but will try a 270 first, though a 350kv is more likely.CheersDanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 Thanks Danny. Here’s the revised undercarriage design, note new former FX. I’ve indicated 1/8” ply but thinking about 1/4”. Also I’ve Tippexed out the radiator because the Hispano version is smaller and neater, so I need to draw that in as well. I will finish off that detail tomorrow or Thursday evening and get on with gluing everything together. I think that this looks good. I have retained the existing front u/c leg and wheel position, so accepting the fact that Dennis has moved it forward and keeping this the same, which is probably common sense anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 Just looked for the Aerodrive 5065. Couldn’t find a 350 KV so have ordered a 320KV, in stock at HK, delivery 1/2 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 They used to do a whole raft of KV's with that motor, I have several. However be careful, I have found the KV is not always as quoted....... The bulkhead is drilled and spaced for the 5065. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Excellent work Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 What wheels are those Colin? Sorry - just spotted Dubro in the post above Martyn Edited By Martyn K on 14/11/2018 12:47:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose L. G. Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Hi Colin. Nice aproach to the landing gear. I`ve bought a few oleos, probably overkill. Also to mount the oleos I need a secondary bulkhead. We´ll see if I continue with that or simplify. Cheers. José Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 Danny, thank you! I will have to see what arrives. Looking at comments from users on the HK website I see props up to 18x10 being used, so it sounds as if it will be in the right ball park. I have to consider which ESC to use, anybody with thoughts on that? Martian, thank you but it’s early days yet! Martyn, one of our fellow forumites mentioned this option early on. It looks to me like the closest to reality without having to make one! I particularly like the tyre, despite being narrow it has loads of absorption and is also clearly a proper low rebound rubber, excellent quality. As I am not going to try and spring the undercarriage, this will be important. The lightly moulded in spokes will be easy to remove or cover and I might drill holes for lightness, perhaps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Hi Colin, I am aiming for a scale prop, something around 21 x 10 I have tested a 270KV on a 5S 5000 and got 51A giving 902 watts on a 20 x 10 So I would suggest an ESC in the 70A range to give some overhead. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 Hi again Jose. I thought about Oleos but vertical movement of the leg inside the fairing seemed a bit problematical, so I decided not to do it. However I think the extra bulkhead is necessary and in my case it will bear most of the load, I hope! Danny, thank you, perhaps I should have gone for the 270 after all? We shall see! I will take your advice on the ESC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 I have just double checked and my figures are for the 380 not 270, I blame it on old age also tested the 350 and 380 KV I know yours is a 320KV (Told you they did them all sorts of windings) probably easier if I give all the numbers 5065 KV350 Prop Battery RPM V A W 15x10 8S1P 21 49 1000 520g 16x10 8S1P 7000 20.6 56 1197 520g 16x10 6S2P 18 43 795 960g 17x10 6S2P 5900 17.9 49 879 960g 18x10wood 6S2P 5600 17.3 51.5 914 960g 19x10 6S2P 5300 17 59 1015 960g 16x10x2 6S2P 5000 16.8 61.1 1061 960g 5065 KV270 Prop Battery RPM V A W Pack Weight 19 x 10 6S A123 4071 19.9/17.04 25.7 450 480g 19 x 10 5S 5k Lipo 4400 20.78/18.74 28.5 556 650g 20 x 10 7S 5k Lipo 26/24.6 46.2 1150 5065 KV380 Prop Battery RPM V A W Pack Weight 20 x 10 6S A123 4100 19.5/14.2 40.9 625 480g 20 x 10 5S 5k Lipo 4912 20.4/17.7 51 902 650g 20 x 10 7S A123 4921 22.7/16.57 51 894 560g 20 x 10 8S A123 5337 26/17.1 62.48 1232 640g 20 x 10 6S 2P A123 5000 19.8/17.2 55 998.9 960g 20 x 10 7S 2P A123 5400 22.93/19.68 63.5 1274 1120g 20 x 10 8S 2P A123 5602 26.2/20.92 68.98 1456 1280g Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Hello Colin, Nice progress all of a sudden. Super for you if you could stay clear of those exotic countries for a while now. Regarding your u/c, if you allow me. I'm maybe/very certainly not totally aware of your plans, but if you solidly fix the aft wire to your 'new' former (Fx?), you are creating a total solid 'triangulated' u/c with no 'aft' flexing and no 'compression' availability. The tyre rubber only will certainly not be able to absorb any energy. As the Spanish legs are narrow at the bottom side, using an oleo strut would be easily possible with an hollow GF pant allowing the bottom part to 'slide' in a bit. But then, I don't exactly know if apprentices are allowed a 2 euro 'pence'? Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 It is an interesting problem, and I would have to agree with Chris, two legs in a triangle is going to create a very rigid structure. with no rearwards flex at all. The U/C loads will be transferred to the airframe and landing wires. I would use a single leg anchored to a thicker/upgraded existing former. it could then spring backwards and forwards as well as splay out as needed. The trick will be to ensure the widening shroud is flexible enough not to break off under the stress. Where is Gordon when we need him Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 Danny, thanks for the motor info, very helpful. Chris and Danny, I agree absolutely with all of that. I would point out that the design on the plan has no give anyway, the load is fed straight back into the centre section with no springing and no springing on the front leg either. Dick van Mourik describes that he had no springing in his undercarriage and he was using 4” wheels. I am going to stick with it. There will be a need to ensure adequate reinforcement where the bulkhead is secured, but apart from that the only springing will be lateral spread and that won’t be a lot. As long as it doesn’t rip out, the primary risk then is probably bending back of the wheel axles and twisting of the legs. I need to work on my landings, don’t I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 16, 2018 Author Share Posted November 16, 2018 Blimey, what a lump! Arrived in 3 days from HK. I’m definitely sticking with the ply engine mount, there’s going to be a lot of twisting torque transmitted through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 It says 5065 on it, but the proportions look different to mine? you had better check the length of that motor just to make sure it will fit? Mine is 71mm from the front of the prop mount to the rear of the motor body, not including the cruciform mount. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 The engine mount has always been ply Colin, it is F1 that some have substituted for balsa Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted November 16, 2018 Author Share Posted November 16, 2018 Looks as if you are right.? I can solve it by cutting the fuselage sides though and fitting the engine mount further back? (Note balsa F1 lurking in the background). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose L. G. Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Mine is 76 mm long ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Fane Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Hi Colin What sort of weight do you expect from your build ? Im guessing we are looking at 9 to 10lbs ?? so around a 1000Watts power ? Looking at Dannys motor testing I wonder if the 320Kv motor is going to produce engough power (unless you use a 20 inch plus prop or go 6s Lipo ???) As i cant seem to locate the higher kv Turnigy motor I was thinking of a 4max PO-5065-360. Im a total electric beginner so may be talking total rubbish cheers Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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